Wreck diving - something I saw as a grey area

[jerryn]

It should for him...it wasn't my question. My whole point, which you agree with is that he asked the wrong question...the question is not "is the an OE?, omg i'm in violation of a rule"...but what is this dive about and do I have the training and experience to accomplish the dive according to a set of criteria (in his case GUE) that I want to use to guide my diving?

So again, you and I agree, he asked the wrong question.

Jerry

 

[headhunter]

I agree that I asked the wrong question. Not just here in this thread, but more importantly when I was on the dive.

Instead of asking myself whether or not I should classify this as an overhead environment leaving myself a "rational" out, I should have asked if this would (a) violate the plan, which was to conduct an non-penetration dive and (b) if this would somehow go beyond my current level of training. The answer to those questions would have been a clear "yes".

I used rationalization to make a decision that violated both the dive plan and my current level of training.

When I think back on it, I really should have known better. Some might argue that I did and that this is why I asked the question.

Lesson learned. I will get the proper training before doing something like this again.

I appreciate everyone's comments in this thread and look forward to any that may follow.

Christian

 

[theskull]

headhunter,

One of the basic Cave Diving principles, to which I'm sure the DIR guys also subscribe, is to precede any dive with a game of "What if" and then only make the dive if all the scenarios can be accounted for comfortably.

In this particular case the questions might include:
What if I dropped into the open wreck and became entangled in some unseen wires or fishing line?
What if I dropped into the open wreck and my exhaust bubbles knocked loose sediment that caused a silt-out?
What if I dropped into the open wreck, lost buoyancy control just long enough to crash into the bottom, and created a silt-out?
What if I dropped into the open wreck and my buddy followed me in and proceeded to swim on into the belly of the wreck?

Preferably you do this out loud with your buddy before making the dive, but it also works as a mental exercise before you "extend the dive plan" during the dive.

theskull

Note: I realize I just "invaded sacred DIR turf" here, but I know HH and have dived with him. I'm sure he will appreciate this viewpoint even though it may not be politically endorsed. And I'm quite sure he is interested in anything that will improve his safety habits.

 

[Cacia]

large wrecks with openings can create impressive vacumes as surge feeds through the vessel . I have see divers near an opening get sucked in one hole and spit out a hatch.

 

[DIR-Atlanta]

When I think back on it, I really should have known better. Some might argue that I did and that this is why I asked the question.

That's what I would have argued. Glad you got it sorted out.

 

[TSandM]

Thank you for posting this. The discussion has been excellent, and applicable to far more than the limited original question.

 

[headhunter]

headhunter,

One of the basic Cave Diving principles, to which I'm sure the DIR guys also subscribe, is to precede any dive with a game of "What if" and then only make the dive if all the scenarios can be accounted for comfortably.

In this particular case the questions might include:
What if I dropped into the open wreck and became entangled in some unseen wires or fishing line?
What if I dropped into the open wreck and my exhaust bubbles knocked loose sediment that caused a silt-out?
What if I dropped into the open wreck, lost buoyancy control just long enough to crash into the bottom, and created a silt-out?
What if I dropped into the open wreck and my buddy followed me in and proceeded to swim on into the belly of the wreck?

Preferably you do this out loud with your buddy before making the dive, but it also works as a mental exercise before you "extend the dive plan" during the dive.

theskull

Note: I realize I just "invaded sacred DIR turf" here, but I know HH and have dived with him. I'm sure he will appreciate this viewpoint even though it may not be politically endorsed. And I'm quite sure he is interested in anything that will improve his safety habits.

I do appreciate your comments and know they are made from a position of wanting to help me improve my process for the sake of safety.

Thanks.

Christian

 

[marusso]

Now my question is what type of training does GUE offer for wreck penetration. Is it simply the Cave 1 class? I have not seen any training classes on the GUE website for wreck penetration.

To me, even though caves and wrecks both offer similiar conditions and hazards, both also have different dangers to consider.

Thanks,

Michael

Edit: Or what type of training should one pursue?

 

[Meng_Tze]

Tech1 and II do some line work and are definately geared to the OW technical diving, bit there is no implicit 'Wreck penetration' I believe.

Cave training in my opinion is universal enough to be applied to wrecks as well. The differences are that wrecks can be far more narrow, have dangly bits, sharp edges, sea monsters and you tend to tie off more frequently

 

[cmalinowski]

my question that I think has been missed is: Where was your team and why did no one else question this move?

I aplaud you for asking this. This is what DIR is about. Asking questions and getting answers and being frank with yourself and your dive team. As someone put it to me recently, there is no pride in DIR diving. If you make mistakes, your team points them out and you all become stronger. You don't hide them in the hopes that others will not mention them and you will "get away with it". Your asking was great and exactly what you should have done with your team post-dive. And your team should have questioned you.

Glad you asked this.

Chris