Wreck Diving Course Questions

[sleepr]

I will be heading to Grand Cayman in the fall of 2013 and have been looking into the possibility of taking a wreck diving course. The operation I will be diving with offers a PADI (I'm SSI certified) course with 4 dives on the wreck of the Kittiwake. I know the PADI course is probably more like an intro to wreck diving and will likely just whet my whistle so to speak. My question is more about the value of the course.

At some point in time I would like to do some wreck diving in the Great Lakes, towards that end I now am learning how to dive a drysuit. I suspect at some point I may have to look at some technical diving certifications as well. Is there any real value in taking the PADI (aside from 4 dives on the Kittiwake) course or should I just hold off and wait until I can try to find a more suitable course that will be more in line with Great Lakes wreck diving?

 

[TMHeimer]

Perhaps hold off. PADI's course can include very basic penetration (doesn't have to). The rest of the course was fun and interesting, but mostly logical stuff--ei. look out for unstable structures and sucking currents at openings.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I would spend my money on cool dives and then seek training for the environment that you will be diving in..

 

[spc751]

My dive buddy and I am looking at taking a wreck penetration course in the spring. Why don't you think about taking a trip to BC and taking this course.

DSAT Wreck Penetration Distinctive Specialty | Ocean Quest Dive Centre - Scuba Diving Vancouver, BC - Experts in Scuba Training

 

[rongoodman]

I wouldn't bother with the PADI course. Steve Lewis(Doppler) teaches the TDI Advanced Wreck course in the St. Lawrence in the summer, but it might be farther than you want to travel. In any event, since you're looking at diving in an overhead environment, think about getting comfortable in doubles, either back or sidemount.

 

[DevonDiver]

Here's a link to my article "How to Choose An Effective Wreck Diving Course" - which deals with a number of criteria (tips) to evaluate the potential benefits of a given wreck course.

IMHO, wreck diving courses can be all-or-nothing. The PADI (and other agency) standards for wreck training actually permit a huge variation (discrepancy) between course quality. A more cynical person might suggest that such variation simply exists to pander to ill-experienced instructors and allow them to make a fast buck teaching a specialist subject in which they have no specialist knowledge or experience.

There are 3 basic levels of tuition available:

1. Basic Wreck: Such as the PADI Wreck Diver course. Nothing more than an introduction to wreck diving. The focus and quality of penetration training is entirely determined by the relative experience of the instructor. As with any specialist subject - seek out an instructor who is qualified to teach...and dives... several levels higher than the course you would take with them. Basic penetration limitations are: within the light-zone, no restrictions and no more than 40m/130ft linear (total) distance from the surface. The vast majority of wreck courses offered, do not provide sufficient training to do any penetration IMHO. Shop around carefully...

As an example, my wreck courses involve significant development of fundamental skills (buoyancy, trim, weighting, dive planning, situational awareness, team skills), non-silting procedures (frog kick, modified flutter kick, helicopter turn, back-kick), followed by intensive guide-line practice that also involves specific drills for survival in lost-line, lost-exit, lost-buddy and air-sharing egress... all practiced in simulated zero viz (black mask). The course ends with a significant penetration dive - which is entirely planned and conducted by the (newly) competent wreck divers.

Given the scope of diving permitted - Basic Wreck should equate to the same standards/outcomes as a Cavern Diving qualification. They rarely do.

2. Intermediate/Advanced Wreck or Overhead Protocols: These tend to be distinctive specialties, run by specific instructors. UTD now offer the 'Overhead Protocols' training, which develops specific team and guideline skills for overheads (cavern, cave or wreck). That concept is nothing new, but UTD were the first to formalize it as an agency standard course. This level represents what you 'really' need to know for penetration dives - even within the 'basic limitations' of the basic wreck standards. You run a guideline to mitigate the consequences of silt-outs etc... silt-outs are a significant hazard... therefore refined guideline/team skills and drills are critical for survival in the overhead environment.

As an example, I offer an Overhead Environment Protocols clinic as an addendum to my Basic Wreck course. 4 dives on a PADI wreck course is simply nowhere near sufficient to develop penetration competency. This clinic is a further 6 dives, providing progressive refinement of team skills, dive planning and guideline procedures.

Intermediate wreck training definitely brings wreck skills in line with that provided for other overhead environments at a recreational level (Cavern-Cave 1/basic).

There can be confusion over the name "Advanced" Wreck. Some agencies/instructors use it to designate second-level (advanced recreational) courses, wheras other instructors/agencies use it to designate tertiary-level (technical) level wreck training. I prefer 'Advanced Wreck' as secondary-level and preserve 'Technical Wreck' for tertiary...

3. Technical (Advanced) Wreck: These courses are offered to existing technical divers. Wreck courses at this level have a competency prerequisite for highly refined capability in 'technical rig' equipment, along with well ingrained emergency drills, a positive mind-set, exemplary foundational skills, high situational awareness and team skills... and attention to necessary detail with dive planning and conduct.

These '3rd' level courses remove boundaries/limitations on penetration - the 'fully monty', beyond the light zone, through restrictions and no 'linear distance' issues. Depth is limited only by the student's highest qualification - but an END of 100ft/30m is typical, when it comes to gas selection for penetration.

Some agencies/instructors do offer more progression for wreck training, with 'expedition' or 'explorational' grade training. These are apex courses that deal with specific issues and solutions to problems that a typical wreck diver would never encounter.

 

[Diver0001]

Is there any real value in taking the PADI (aside from 4 dives on the Kittiwake) course or should I just hold off and wait until I can try to find a more suitable course that will be more in line with Great Lakes wreck diving?

The value of the wreck specialty depends, probably more than any other specialty, on what the instructor is willing to put into it.

All specialties can be good or bad depending on how motivated the instructor is. Specialty outlines are not highly specific. To draw on a metaphor, they are not "paint by numbers". They're more like a painter's canvass with some rough lines filled in that show the general shape. Some instructors will turn those rough lines into slightly less rough lines and some will try to make it as much a gallery piece as they can in the time allotted.

So the sad news is that nobody can answer your question because there are such wide variations in the quality of the finished product. Your best bet is to interview several instructors ahead of time and choose the one that at least talks the best game. After that, you will still need to get connected with some local wreck divers back home to get specific experience with your local wrecks. The PADI specialty can offer a foundation for that if it's taught well.

R..

---------- Post added December 17th, 2012 at 09:17 AM ----------

Here's a link to my article "How to Choose An Effective Wreck Diving Course" - which deals with a number of criteria (tips) to evaluate the potential benefits of a given wreck course.

Love this post, Andy. You should ask to have it made sticky.

R..

 

[NCadiver]

Some of the Advance Wreck course requires you to have the basic wreck diving course first and Advance Open Water and whoever you want to take the Advance Wreck diving course from check out their requirements.
Also you will EAN course will be helpful.

 

[DCBC]

I suppose that it depends upon how you want to learn. Knowledge can be gained from most programs, but that is largely dependent upon the knowledge base you have to start with. Taking a course is a good method of learning a specialty, but not the only way of learning. When I learned, there wasn't such a beast as a wreck diving course that was available to me. Deep diving, Caves and Wrecks were something that people mainly learned by doing in a modular way. You dove with someone more experienced, who had learned his skill-sets from someone else. Knowledge and skill was gained through experience. Today, it's much easier to learn as the "best practices" have been contained within the various training programs.

The Kittiwake is a wreck that's safely explored by many non-experienced divers. It lies in bathtub clear water at 65 feet and sits upright. It was scuttled by the Cayman Islands Tourism Association after it was "prepared" and removed of obvious hazards. It sits upright with flat decks. That is not to say that proper wreck diving procedures can't be taught, but it's a far cry from most of the wrecks that you will dive in the Great Lakes that are often full of hazards.

Personally, I would enjoy diving the drop-offs and take a wreck diving program locally. I suspect that when all is said and done for, you will be glad you did. Have a good vacation!

 

[darushin]

As someone who hold both PADI Wreck and a Cave card I can tell you that if you want to to do wreck penetration, I would recommend taking a cavern course instead. While not done in a wreck, cavern will stress proper line technique, fin technique and planning that is useful in any overhead environment a lot more then anything PADI wreck will teach you. The first thing PADI wreck manual will tell you is "PADI wreck diver cert is no substitution for specialized overhead training such as Cavern".

Daru