How similar or different are the skills, techniques and knowledge obtained in a cave course and a wreck course (w. penetration)? What is common and what is specific?
Wreck and Cave - similar or different?
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I teach both and believe that even though many skills are shared, there are several differences in the mindset and way personal limits are categorized.
For example, in a wreck class (advanced wreck of course), I get to tie the student up. Distance from the surface is a factor too. Not many wrecks allow for a few hundred metres of penetration during the course.
Overall, I would venture that a wreck penetration course is somewhat tougher physically... and a cave is somewhat tougher mentally... but that is likely a biased opinion.
For example, in a wreck class (advanced wreck of course), I get to tie the student up. Distance from the surface is a factor too. Not many wrecks allow for a few hundred metres of penetration during the course.
Overall, I would venture that a wreck penetration course is somewhat tougher physically... and a cave is somewhat tougher mentally... but that is likely a biased opinion.
OP
I am neither a wreck diver not a cave diver as the terms are used here. There are some wrecks that I have dived on a number of times. I have noted that Wrecks change from year to year and storm to storm. Over time roofs collapse. There are lots of sharp corners. Even in a cleaned out made for divers wreck, entanglements and other hazards develop over time. Stable structures become unstable. There is one "easy swim through" that I used to do that I will not do anymore for the above reasons.
The main point of this post ia about the different character of wrecks over caves in mind, but before the comments descend on me about training I will just say that there are real overheads and overheads I do not worry about. If I drop into an open hold and there is a completely clear open path to an open outside door that is 4 ft long and 8 ft high and 8 fi wide that may be technically an overhead environment but I am not worried about it. On the other hand I know of some passageways on ships on their sides that are not overheads that I do not go along due to entanglement hazards. If it is at all a tight fit and if there are any entanglement hazards and there is not a quick exit and I am not familiar with the layout or there is silt I do not go. (Yes I am in solo configuration with a pony, etc but with a buddy).
---------- Post added February 6th, 2015 at 09:07 AM ----------
Have the student experience an entanglement event.
The main point of this post ia about the different character of wrecks over caves in mind, but before the comments descend on me about training I will just say that there are real overheads and overheads I do not worry about. If I drop into an open hold and there is a completely clear open path to an open outside door that is 4 ft long and 8 ft high and 8 fi wide that may be technically an overhead environment but I am not worried about it. On the other hand I know of some passageways on ships on their sides that are not overheads that I do not go along due to entanglement hazards. If it is at all a tight fit and if there are any entanglement hazards and there is not a quick exit and I am not familiar with the layout or there is silt I do not go. (Yes I am in solo configuration with a pony, etc but with a buddy).
---------- Post added February 6th, 2015 at 09:07 AM ----------
Have the student experience an entanglement event.
bamafan
Contributor
In my opinion the skills are similar but the main difference to me is in a cave the dive is the hard part and the deco is easy. In a wreck the dive is the easy part and the deco is the hard part. In cave diving you are often going many thousands of feet and your technique needs to be really good but when you get to deco you just wedge yourself in a rock blow up your drysuit and go to sleep. On a wreck dive the dive itself is generally not very long. 30 minutes or so followed by 2 - 3 times that hanging on a bouncing anchor line while you deco. You are having to watch your depth so as to not blow your mod while you are getting drug around. Of course there are exceptions to this but this is my generalization.
I'm not a cave diver but I have some training for wrecks and under ice.
In some ways, all overhead environments share some common characteristics and some common procedures.
As for caves vs. wrecks..... I think wrecks in some ways can be more risky. In a cave your major issues are restrictions and getting lost. In a wreck you have those issues as well, but also other complications, like sharp edges that can cut guide lines, instability and/or entrapment dangers that are lot more present than they are in caves and issues like unexploded ordinance etc. Moreover, many wrecks are in open seas near or in shipping lanes, which creates complications on the surface as well as under water with respect to currents, location and procedures when someone is lost or makes a free ascent. In addition, when wreck diving you are often in contact with the wreck. Due to cramped spaces it's almost impossible to totally avoid contact with the wreck unless it's very large and in very good condition. This is obviously different than in caves where (I hear) the goal is to not make contact at all.
I know there are certain groups who view wrecks as a small steel cave. Personally I wouldn't look at it like that. Maybe in the diving you can mostly deal with a wreck in that way but there is more to consider.
As for which activity is riskier....? Not sure as I don't dive caves. What I can imagine is that in a cave if something goes wrong you are LOT further from open water, which could put you in time pressure. A wreck has other issues, particularly with respect to entrapment, that I believe play less of a role in caves.
R...
LiteHedded
Contributor
that wreck diving business is dangerous.
kafkaland
Contributor
Octopusprime
Contributor
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there is cavern and cave. Cavern you can always see exit point. Someone did ask which is more dangerous and I would say it is both or either. There are caves you need to take your gear off to get through a hole or big open rooms same with wrecks some are tight others are not. Each dive site is different. Some of the concerns are possibility of silt out, can you easily turn around, can you dive side by side with your buddy, are there entanglement issues. So there are wrecks and caves that are harder than others.
Personally my I have no want to go hundreds of yards in a cave but to check out a wreck gets me excited. It is almost a question of why do you dive, what do you want to get out of your dive? Then get trained and comfortable with the possible problems. I intentionally practice a silt out no vis dive every year. It is a confidence thing. You need to know you can stay calm and think. I saw one dive shop in their wreck class they put a student in blacked out mask and wrapped him in a fishing net. It was a little much in my mind but is it is likely train for it safely.
Personally my I have no want to go hundreds of yards in a cave but to check out a wreck gets me excited. It is almost a question of why do you dive, what do you want to get out of your dive? Then get trained and comfortable with the possible problems. I intentionally practice a silt out no vis dive every year. It is a confidence thing. You need to know you can stay calm and think. I saw one dive shop in their wreck class they put a student in blacked out mask and wrapped him in a fishing net. It was a little much in my mind but is it is likely train for it safely.
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