Worth it to have old AL80's VIP'd & Hydro'd?

[mstevens]

My father-in-law gave me 3 old AL80's. By old, I mean they were made in 1977 & 1978 and I was probably the last to breathe any gas from them in about 1985. There are two US Divers with J valves (but no rods) and one Dacor with a K valve. Two have some pressure (I'm not putting any of *my* regs on them with 20 year-old air and who knows what kinds of contaminants just to find out how much), while one had an open valve. They show their age in plenty of scratches, none deeper than halfway through the paint. My biggest concern is powdery white corrosion bubbling from under the original paint in a few places on all of them. My second-biggest is that I have no idea what alloy they used and whether I'd just be setting myself up for expensive annual testing.

The cheapest place to get a hydro around here ($30) is over an hour away. The places 40 minutes away charge around $45.

Obviously I'm cheap^H^H^H^H^Hfrugal or I'd just say "no, thanks." Is there much point to having these inspected or would I just be throwing good money after bad?

 

[PaulChristenson]

Soooo...what's your life worth????
Pitch them...but thats just me...I don't jump out of planes with old chutes either

Paul in VT

 

[Rick Murchison]

Totally worthless.
Just send 'em to me and I'll take care of safely disposing of them for you.
--
Seriously, drain 'em, look inside them. If they look ok then take 'em in for a VIP & hydro. There's no reason they shouldn't last another 20 years if you take care of them and have them regularly inspected. Personally I'd change those J valves out for some new K's, but there are plenty of J's still working just fine too.
Rick

 

[Doc Intrepid]

The external surface corrosion is likely not a huge disqualifier, assuming any pits etc. are miniscule. Some shops simply sandblast such tanks and use them for classes. If the pits are large the tanks may be condemned, but that would be some serious pitting.

Whether these cylinders will be of value to you will really depend on three factors:
1. Who made them – Catalina or Luxfer?;
2. Will they pass hydro and VIP?; and
3. Can you find a Local Dive Store (LDS) in your area that will fill them?

Briefly, the issue is sustained load cracking occurring in the neck of some tanks manufactured primarily before 1988 from 6351 aluminum alloy.

In terms of the first issue, Catalina tanks were never manufactured using 6351 alloy. If the tanks are made by Catalina, go have them Hydro’d and VIP’d, and if they pass these tests, by all means use them.

If the tanks were made by Luxfer, then it’s a matter of when they were made – e.g. are they 6351 alloy or not? If they were made before the 6351 allow began to be used, they are likely ok. Even if they ARE 6351 alloy, if they pass hydro and VIP they are likely ok. The problem you will run into is that some shops simply refuse to fill any aluminum tanks manufactured before <enter randomly selected year here>. Among other rationales offered, this policy helps sell aluminum scuba tanks.

Here is a fill policy from one of the more enlightened shops, which quotes the Luxfer site’s manufacturers policy:

http://www.ezscuba.com/luxfer_tanks.htm

Here is a FAQ from the Luxfer site itself:

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/support/faq/sustainedloadcracking-australia.shtml

Hope this helps. Most everyone could use three more aluminum 80s

Dive safe,

Doc

 

[mstevens]

Personally I'd change those J valves out for some new K's

I've seriously considered this. However, then I'd only be about $75 short of a new AL80, which isn't far from a PST E7-80... I think I'm either going to try to keep these as cheap as possible or go ahead and get what I really want.

Some shops simply sandblast such tanks and use them for classes.

I'd just as soon have them blasted anyway. Right now they are festooned with stickers (large 1980's inspection stickers) that are hard to get off but torn to shreds. Maybe I can call and see if any of the shops will do that.

Whether these cylinders will be of value to you will really depend on three factors:
1. Who made them – Catalina or Luxfer?

I'll bet there's a good way to tell, but I'm not sure what it is. Anyone know of a reliable brand-name to manufacturer reference? If they're Luxfer it looks as if they're in the suspect date range.

3. Can you find a Local Dive Store (LDS) in your area that will fill them?

I hadn't even considered an arbitrary date cutoff. Perhaps my first step should be to see how big a fight it would be to get them filled assuming they were able to pass. If that's not an issue then I'll see if any local shops will blast them to remove the paint then see if they'll pass a visual before getting them hydro'd.

 

[android]

Where are you looking for hydro?
Call around to the fire extinguisher companies. It will usually cost about $15-$20. That's where the dive shop is going to take it anyway.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

At the risk of it costing you a few bucks more, it might be most convenient to work through the LDS.

They'll know who they regularly take tanks to for hydro. Some tanks have been hydro'd incorrectly by shops that do hydro's infrequently (see PSI and PST sites for citations). The shop may charge you more for the hydro because they transport the tanks over, make a percentage, etc. OTOH you know the reputation of the place doing the hydro and you're reasonably likely to get a shop monkey who knows how to properly do hydros.

Bead blasting is done generally by a couple shops in larger towns. The dive shop may know of a place that bead blasts tanks - particularly if they themselves have their older tanks bead blasted.

The manufacturer and date of manufacture should be stamped on the neck of the bottle - Catalina or Luxfer...take a close look at the figures and numbers stamped onto the neck of the bottle (yes, I use a magnifying glass on older tanks because I have older eyes).

K valves can be found from time to time all over the internet, often for $15 to $20 bucks or so.

All this is hot air if the shop refuses to fill old aluminum tanks on principle, so it might be prudent to determine this first. (Uh, talk to the owner of the shop. Decisions like this should be a top-down rather than a bottom-up issue, or the owner will wind up having to support a decision made lower down by his shop manager, who may have his own rationale that might be incompatible with your best interests...)

Good luck,

Doc

 

[Creed]

Soooo...what's your life worth????
Pitch them...but thats just me...I don't jump out of planes with old chutes either

Paul in VT

Let me get this straight. You voluntarily jump out of planes at high altitudes, but balk at strapping on an older tank that passes all of the required safety checks?

 

[RDP]

Good chance they are 6351 aluminum. Don't believe the myths. Have them hydro'd and make sure the neck is eddy current checked (as it should be). It wouldn't hurt to check out the valves as well. If all checks out, you're good to go.

 

[JustJoe]

Take them to a shop that will fill them after the hydro. Let them do the work, they will trust the tank. My LDS will not fill old aluminum tanks that they do not hydro (pre 1988).

Although I think it sucks, most shops that I know do this as a regular practice.

Joe