Work permits for non-Egyptian diving staff required for CDWS renewals

[BjFaeTorphins]

As a freelancer myself, I may never work again in Egypt if this work permit stuff is enforced as announced.

But I think what Red Sea Shadow says makes a lot of sense, and I globally agree with him.

There are many Egyptian students who already speak English, German, French and/or Italian (or other languages), or who can learn them quickly, at least enough to work as DMs. And who can get their DM certification in a few weeks or months.

Yes I've seen quite a few bad Egyptian DMs (sorry Asser) but I've seen also good ones. If freelancers become mostly Egyptians, which will probably happen with this new regulation if it's enforced, their growing numbers and the competition between them are likely to enhance their professionnalism (it's already what happens with European freelancers, at least in the good dive centers). Anyway the clients will dive with whichever freelancers there are, Egyptians or not. Hard to tell if that might detract them from diving in Egypt. I don't think so.

The overall process seems to be Europeans being (more or less gradually) kicked out of Egypt as dive professionals - but can we blame the Egyptians for that ?

That's already the case in many countries where the dive guides are mostly locals.

Albeit this is pain in my a**, this is also the reality we're faced with as European dive professionals.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this work permit thing ends.

Well said HG Frogman. Your honesty is to your credit and I'm sure will stand you in good stead.

In a country where there is 65% unemployment and where average wage for those in employment is a pittance when compared to the countries from which non-egyptian guides come it's really hard to criticize any measure taken to favour Egyptians when it comes to employment.

 

[Scubadad1]

I now am going to be highly contentious but this is typically Egyptian; not thought through and a knee jerk. The situation will be chaos and there will be severe repercussions not only for the diving industry but also for the property market in the main centres.

The fact there is high unemployment in Egypt is irrelevant in respect of this issue; not many would be interested or capable of becoming Instructors.

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

The fact there is high unemployment in Egypt is irrelevant in respect of this issue; not many would be interested or capable of becoming Instructors.

That's very subjective. How do you measure the interest and the capability?

 

[String]

I'd agree. I dont think theres the will or demand from the local population to step into diving jobs. Easter will be fun - complete chaos.

 

[Camel]

Europeans need to be registered officially in the EU country that they wish to work in. No registration no job unless you are paid under the table. This is definitly the case in the UK, Sweden and Holland.
This work permit issue has been in the pipeline for years which is why I decided to bail out of Egypt a long time ago. When a known crook and serious cowboy is sitting across a desk from me asking me silly dive questions to ensure I knew what I was doing so they could issue my card was more than I could be arsed with. I passed and was allowed my card but left after 7 good years before having to get it renewed ( 2002 ).
No issues with making sure everybody is legal but when some not very nice people are put in charge who make you feel like dirt when you go to get it, its a whole different story. They were so painfully anti foreigner it was unreal.
In Indonesia we had to pay about US$2000 per foreign worker so were forced to use locals from the village. Some great people but the cultural bridge we had to get them over was damn near impossible. Guests want guides who are good above and below the water and know how to behave themselves ( especially around women ). I cannot comment on the quality of the local DM's but in the 90's it was not good.
Sometimes what may look good on paper may be totally awful in reality. Just in case somebody wants to play the "race"card, I had and still have some very dear and close Egyptian friends.
Good luck with your high season guys and girls. I do not envy your situations.

 

[Interceptor121]

Just spoke to the owner of the dive operation I work for
In order to request a card you need to show proof of submission of a work permit request
This will cost 1800 Le in stamp duties plus para legal fees between 1000 and 3000 LE
The request has to be submitted by a dive shop already registered with Cdws
My dive shop will pay those costs however they are now looking at 1 year contracts with penalties in case of an early resignation
It is not clear what happens once you have submitted the work permit request but there is belief that some people will be denied one and nobody knows if CDWS will request the card to be returned in this case though I would think this will not be happening and you will be able to continue to work

 

[watch_the_bubbles]

So, recently heard that CDWS will re-examine the Dive Professionals as part of it's endeavour to please ISO standards.
A very interesting point on this matter is that on your professional membership card with PADI, it has the following statement:
EUF certifies this certification meets EN 14413-2: Instructor Level 2 (or level 1 for DMs).

When we renew as PADI instructors, I know the membership agreement details that we will read training updates and whatever we need to do to "be good INstructors"

So, the person I was speaking to said that they will not renew their dive centre or self with CDWS, and I think the above is a good argument. "we are already "standards" certified,so who isCdWS to question one's competence???"

Anyway, just some food for discussion

 

[Red Sea Shadow]

Not aiming at hijacking the thread, but PADI OWSI is Instructor Level 2 while PADI DM is Diver Level 3 (not Instructor Level 1).

Instructor Level 1 is CMAS 1* Instructor or PADI AI.

 

[Interceptor121]

If an instructor is certified according to a standard it does
not mean that automatically the resort operates
to iso standards when they rent gear, fill tanks, manage boats
and so on. So in principle an inspection and certification of dive centers is a
good thing. Is the inspection process reliable? This is a separate issue...

 

[high_ppO2]

What's inexpensive in your opinion? Is 3,000 LE (around 300 GBP) per year expensive for living and working legally in a place like Dahab or Sharm?

It _IS_ expensive. Have a look at your salary...80 Euros (if u are lucky) for a 1pax OW. If u do it right, 5 days (the student has to study, getting the equipment on the 1st day etc etc....and for the student it's still holiday!! You just can't them push through the course!).
If you are lucky u will work 70% of the year. Renting a house is min 1500 LE/month plus food plus insurance 140 Euros/year (do any of the egyptian instructors have an insurance?), membership fees (PADI ca. 100 Euros, TDI 150$, Protec 80 Euros, IANTD and so on...).
Why do people think Europeans have the money and you can milk them?
I don't mind paying 3000 LE/year if I get paid a reasonable salary....but this way? No way.
BTW: Remember SSDM??? ROFL