Unknown Woody From “Dive Talk” DCS and Medical Journey

[Joneill]

Just the opposite from pointless...a listing of operational 6ata chambers that will treat civilian divers is the point...of course operational meaning it has either an on-call or resident staff....outdated information? Why should it be outdated? This is not rocket science to keep any listing up to date and published.

Great - so do that. Post a link and keep it updated!

If DAN has a listing of 67 chambers that will treat divers why do they not make it available to all divers or even members?

Why should they publish and have to maintain on a website when it takes a few seconds to call them to get that info - either in advance when planning a trip or if/when issue arises and you need it. I’d rather get the info live than rely on a website that might not be the most current info!

 

[nadwidny]

The chamber in Victoria BC doesn't accept (recreational) divers - despite being a Navy facility designed for Canadian military divers. Recreational divers have to commute by car and ferry to Vancouver. It's a very long trip from Port Hardy, don't get bent up there!

If someone is on the island and needs a chamber ride they will helicopter evac to Vancouver.

 

[rjack321]

If DAN has a listing of 67 chambers that will treat divers why do they not make it available to all divers or even members?

You call them, they check around, calling you back if necessary, and tell you who can accept a diver *today* that's how it works. Not who was accepting divers last week, or last year, or their hyperbaric physician now has covid, or the only attendant available just got done diving with the last patient.

 

[Wallowa]

You call them, they check around, calling you back if necessary, and tell you who can accept a diver *today* that's how it works. Not who was accepting divers last week, or last year, or their hyperbaric physician now has covid, or the only attendant available just got done diving with the last patient.

You just don't get it....DAN does not keep up to date information about available diver treatment chambers and then they do not disseminate what information they do have to divers or members....https://dan.org/safety-prevention/diver-safety/divers-blog/why-dan-does-not-share-chamber-location/....

"Check around"? Seriously we have a 'failure to communicate' Luke...."calling you back if necessary"? "DAN maintains a database of hyperbaric facilities willing to and capable of treating divers. It is challenging to ensure this database is current, as most chambers do not routinely report their status to DAN."......So trust DAN to find an operational chamber that do not routinely report their status to DAN?

Simple question: Why can't DAN, if they are to be our go to consultant for diver DCI injuries, not only identify operational diver treatment chambers, 6ata for "serious" DCI, but routinely contact these chambers to assure that they are operational and staffed? "Challenging to ensure this database"? What better use of resources but keeping current status of diver treatment chambers?

I must just the outlier in all this and other divers are willing to 'leave it to Beaver' or DAN if the they suffer a DCI.

Think how much better off Woody of Dive Talk would have been if he had detailed out an emergency plan prior to his dives including the location and contact information of diving medical physicians, transportation, communications and a 6ata hyperbaric diver treatment chamber. Why 6ata? As pointed out TechDiving pushes the limits with new tables, complex dive profiles, often overhead environments, multi gas mixtures, complex breathing gear so the probability of as the navy sez of a "serious" DCI needing a 6ata chamber is greatly increased. All about personal assumption of risk, I get that, but what about personal assumption of timely and correct treatment in case of an accident?

Lastly, I am beating a dead horse with expectations of DAN keeping an updated listing of operational chambers, can anyone send me a PM or post a listing of operational 6ata diver treatment chambers West of the Rockies? I will take it from there for contact information and transportation [preferably rapid low altitude or pressurized]. Yes, for my person use in case I suffer a DCI and do not want to go through the nightmare that Woody did to get treatment.

 

[girlwithbigtanks]

If someone is on the island and needs a chamber ride they will helicopter evac to Vancouver.

My friend got dcs on sunshine coast. 4x4 to road, ambulance to sechelt. Wait for helo. Nope. Night. Low cloud. No fly. Sent hovercraft. Huge delay in treatment.

 

[rjack321]

Yes check around, with phone calls talking to real medical providers & people including those capable of making a decision today on if they can accept a new patient or not. Do you know ANYTHING about medicine? Even DAN recognizes that chamber status is dynamic.

 

[crofrog]

My friend got dcs on sunshine coast. 4x4 to road, ambulance to sechelt. Wait for helo. Nope. Night. Low cloud. No fly. Sent hovercraft. Huge delay in treatment.

That's still a pretty amazing response that the Coast Guard was able to send in a hovercraft, if the night and low clouds is too dangerous to fly in most of the time. Doesn't do a lot of good to send a helicopter out and have them fly into terrain and either not get the patient or kill the flight crew and patient.

I know the US Coast Guard uses this criteria: "If a mission is likely to save human life, it warrants a maximum effort. When no suitable alternatives exist and the mission has a reasonable chance of success, the risk of damage to or abuse of the aircraft is acceptable, even though such damage or abuse may render the aircraft unrecoverable. Probable loss of the aircrew is not an acceptable risk.”

 

[CT-Rich]

Do you want to be the operator manning the phones at your chamber when a call from someone 90 miles away in hysterics because they *think* their husband is bent and wants to come for a ride, but first they have to call the one that is 30 miles away to see if they would be available and which insurances do you take and they may or may not be able to have insurance coverage?

having an action plan is lovely if the chamber is available when you need it. If you spend two hours to get there and find out someone else is in mid treatment.... And try to convince your insurance that the $90,000 air ambulance was a medical necessity when you arranged it yourself. Trying to self manage something like this is just asking for a nightmare.

 

[admikar]

You just don't get it....DAN does not keep up to date information about available diver treatment chambers and then they do not disseminate what information they do have to divers or members....https://dan.org/safety-prevention/diver-safety/divers-blog/why-dan-does-not-share-chamber-location/....

"Check around"? Seriously we have a 'failure to communicate' Luke...."calling you back if necessary"? "DAN maintains a database of hyperbaric facilities willing to and capable of treating divers. It is challenging to ensure this database is current, as most chambers do not routinely report their status to DAN."......So trust DAN to find an operational chamber that do not routinely report their status to DAN?

Simple question: Why can't DAN, if they are to be our go to consultant for diver DCI injuries, not only identify operational diver treatment chambers, 6ata for "serious" DCI, but routinely contact these chambers to assure that they are operational and staffed? "Challenging to ensure this database"? What better use of resources but keeping current status of diver treatment chambers?

I must just the outlier in all this and other divers are willing to 'leave it to Beaver' or DAN if the they suffer a DCI.

Think how much better off Woody of Dive Talk would have been if he had detailed out an emergency plan prior to his dives including the location and contact information of diving medical physicians, transportation, communications and a 6ata hyperbaric diver treatment chamber. Why 6ata? As pointed out TechDiving pushes the limits with new tables, complex dive profiles, often overhead environments, multi gas mixtures, complex breathing gear so the probability of as the navy sez of a "serious" DCI needing a 6ata chamber is greatly increased. All about personal assumption of risk, I get that, but what about personal assumption of timely and correct treatment in case of an accident?

Lastly, I am beating a dead horse with expectations of DAN keeping an updated listing of operational chambers, can anyone send me a PM or post a listing of operational 6ata diver treatment chambers West of the Rockies? I will take it from there for contact information and transportation [preferably rapid low altitude or pressurized]. Yes, for my person use in case I suffer a DCI and do not want to go through the nightmare that Woody did to get treatment.

You make this sound so easy.
You skipped the answer, so I'll ask it again: why don't you make and maintain such a database?

 

[Wallowa]

You make this sound so easy.
You skipped the answer, so I'll ask it again: why don't you make and maintain such a database?

Did not skip that...trying to glean chamber status information is anything but easy...with zero luck so far...DAN will not put forth an updated list and so far nobody on the forum has put forth at a minimum a listing of potential 6ata chambers...

A listing is exactly what I am attempting to do...for myself, on the West Coast of USA....no, it is not a slam dunk...yes, you need to have an updated listing of 6ata chambers that will treat divers [not medical chambers unless it is 'pain only', not a serious DCI and can be resolved at 2.6-2.8ata, but those that will treat serious diving cases of DCI @ 6ata] ...and yes, the status of those chambers in your AO must be confirmed before you arrange transportation....and yes, you will notify DAN for consultation with chamber staff on treatment protocols and diagnostics ....but all this can be accelerated if you have a detailed emergency plan with locations and contact information before the DCI....time is critical for successful treatment...yes, I have a background in diving medicine, 25 years as a DSO, treatment of diving accidents and 15 years EMT, but so what?....but this is not about me...I never claimed to be the font of knowledge for treating diving accidents, just someone who has a current need for information as I assume that all divers would be better served if they had that same information...is this a simple and easy issue to resolve, no....is it an essential element for diving safety, absolutely.

I misjudged. Gauging by some of the responses asking questions of me that on their face lack sincerity, I will stop engaging these questions and hopefully find another means of gather chamber information. Sincerely I hope that this issue of a nationwide transition to all most exclusively medical chambers and lack of current status of 6ata chamber information will be resolved in favor of treating serious cases of DCI. What I find disturbing and unexpected is that some of the diving community chooses not to take a critical look at current lack of chamber availability information nor even engage in a dialogue of how to rectify the problem. Woody [DT] was roundly scrutinized for his lack of planning and the management of his DCS; but there is a reticence to pitch in and develop, perhaps in concert with DAN, a workable plan to quickly get all injured divers treatment to save them from permanent disabilities or death. If you need a chamber ride, you need to quickly find an operable-online chamber capable of treating you with the correct Navy Treatment Tables; a double lock 6ata chamber remains the gold standard, that is a known but to obfuscate or ignore the necessity of this seems to currently be the norm in the diving community. Diver safety requires that each diver assume the responsibility for their own safety which should include a detailed up to date emergency response plan. While chambers are not the first step in such a plan an available chamber will always remain a life saving part of the plan.

Forum/Thread Moderator, never fear, I recognize this has degenerated into a contentious series of posts and I will abstain from any more posts on this thread. Nothing to be gained without a dialogue. Stay safe out there.