Unknown Woody From “Dive Talk” DCS and Medical Journey

[Underwater Tourist]

And then of course Woody mentioning how he makes those big dives without a pvalve in the drysuit, so basically it means he goes in semi dehydrated to avoid peeing in the drysuit

A questionable approach to diving, which unfortunately, but expectedly, came to bite him

 

[crofrog]

It felt like watching teenagers in a “Friday the 13th” movie — walking right into where you know Jason is.

A questionable approach to diving, which unfortunately, but expectedly, came to bite him

I’m not really sure if these comments are helpful in the grand scheme of things. We want people to share context rich stories and then when they do the community eats them up.

Are there things they could have done differently, yes, but it’s more important to understand why what they did made sense at the time to them.

I don’t think most people here would say that running 40/70 gradient factors would expectedly end with type2 dcs in a person who had conducted many other similar dives without issue.

 

[tursiops]

Dehydrated. Ignoring major symptoms. Not knowing that DAN is secondary insurance and reimburses after the fact. Apparently not alerting CC companies about being on international travel. Ignorantly slamming a company who has helped probably thousands of divers. Refusal to accept any responsibility. Ego? Hubris?

Added: well, he DOES say he was dehydrated, so he DOES accept some responsibility for the DCS. But he accepts no responsibility for not knowing that DAN reimburses, rather than paying up front.

 

[kimh]

I’m not really sure if these comments are helpful in the grand scheme of things. We want people to share context rich stories and then when they do the community eats them up.

Gus & Woody shared this story with the entire world, in arguably the most public way it’s even possible to share. Clearly they understood & accepted that there will be a variety of comments.

And I think that posting sincere, on-topic, and frank comments is one of the most helpful things we can do. Tip-toeing around obvious, serious mistakes ultimately doesn’t serve anyone.

 

[crofrog]

Gus & Woody shared this story with the entire world, in arguably the most public way it’s even possible to share. Clearly they understood & accepted that there will be a variety of comments.

And I think that posting sincere, on-topic, and frank comments is one of the most helpful things we can do. Tip-toeing around obvious, serious mistakes ultimately doesn’t serve anyone.

Do you believe he started the dive "expecting" to get bent?

Were the mistakes obvious at the time?


So, if we assume the answer to those questions is no. We shouldn't apply hindsight bias to the event. We need to ask why it made sense for them to behave in the way they behaved at the time and what we can do to prevent that in the future.

I think there are some interesting questions to ask:

• When he first started feeling a "headache" around 70ft did he think that was a possible sign of DCS?
  • Did he consider slowing, returning to a deeper depth, or extending his deco there?
• Why didn't he increase his "setpoint" on deco from 1.2 to something higher?
  • Did the "CNS Clock" lead to him deciding to run less efficient decompression to stay below the "limit"
• Did they have a plan in place to handle diving emergencies?
  • If so, did they follow it? If not, why not?
  • Does Bahamas Underground have a plan for handling diving emergencies?
• Why didn't they immediately start evacuation?
  • Did they think it was something other than DCS?
  • Did they think it wasn't severe enough to warrant evacuation at the time?
  • Did Brian's background and experience as a Navy diver shape his decisions?
• Was Woody conciously aware that he was dehydrated prior to starting the dive?

 

[fullytek]

I think this is an perfect example of how it is up to your team to have a plan for evacuation and treatment should an emergency arise.

I definitely think some additional analysis of how dan handled this may be productive but we all need to understand that dan doesn't have boots on the ground in all destinations and are working remotely with the resources at their disposal.
Dan needs to take people at their word if a air transport company says its not safe to fly than its not safe to fly.

No one else should be put at risk providing care.

Something else that made a big difference is woodie had buddies thay were able to advocate on his behalf and look at other out of the box options. In parallel with the efforts of dan.

I hope he is ok and this shows how it can happen to anyone.

 

[tursiops]

I hope he is ok and this shows how it can happen to anyone.

Especially if you are dehydrated.

 

[SlugLife]

I was also wondering the same why did it take so long for them to act. The whole part how they started eating stakes while woody was on O2 that entire time, plus not being able to take off his gear beforehand, plus being out of it, gasping for a breath right after the dive...


Reminded me also of the fatality of the DAN employee in Florida on SW who got stuck and died and his inexperience diving tight restrictions appears to have played a major part in that fatality

There is an amount of hindsight bias to be aware of with any analysis:

• We know a lot more about the eventual outcome from where we're sitting, than they knew in the moment.
• We also know a lot less about what it looked like in person at the time from their perspective.

I do agree that it certainly sounds like they should have pursued medical treatment much, much earlier with what they knew at the time. One of the valuable things about examining these incidents, is if we have a similar experience ourselves, we can benefit from that hindsight.

---
I suspect part of the explanation, is how people deal with medical care. Some people are like the Black Knight, while others rush to the ER at the first sign of having the sniffles.

 

[Underwater Tourist]

There is an amount of hindsight bias to be aware of with any analysis:

• We know a lot more about the eventual outcome from where we're sitting, than they knew in the moment.
• We also know a lot less about what it looked like in person at the time from their perspective.

I do agree that it certainly sounds like they should have pursued medical treatment much, much earlier with what they knew at the time. One of the valuable things about examining these incidents, is if we have a similar experience ourselves, we can benefit from that hindsight.

---
I suspect part of the explanation, is how people deal with medical care. Some people are like the Black Knight, while others rush to the ER at the first sign of having the sniffles.

Agree about hindsight bias, but from their description, from the moment Woody got out from the water, it really didn't sound like a case of "maybe he has dcs, maybe he doesnt, his symptoms are very unclear, lets just chill and see"

Imagine you come out from a 3h dive, where you had most of your physical activity happening at the deepest point of the dive so you accelerated your ongassing (was it 30m where the restriction was?). Then you don't feel well while doing deco, then you surface, you literally crawl back to your O2 tank, breathe pure 100% O2 and still feel like you can't get enough air, gasping, can't even remotely take off your own gear, behave erratically, and "staring in the distance but being gone" like Gus said

I don't know man, that's looks pretty serious to me. Maybe not med evac level, but absolutely certainly not "lets go and grill some stakes"

 

[Baker_Dive]

Got about half way and in my opinion this is their best video yet.

Shows exactly how inexperienced divers don't deal and cope with DCS. Kind of funny that they don't get it and try to show it as a positive.

Like yeah, I came out from a really nice 3 hour dive bent as a coathanger, could not walk or talk normaly. My teammates knew something was up, so they gave me oxygen and let me sleep it off with no monitoring.
Anyway 12 hours later we figure out i'm really bent.

Calling Brian Kakuk inexperienced is inaccurate.