Woman rescued near San Clemente Island - California

[DandyDon]

I asked the same question of the DAN medical tech when I called in my report. She responded that the increased partial pressure of a chamber ride helps a LOT of things besides the bends... brain functions being one of them. She also said that noticeable improvement in cognitive functions upon descending in a chamber is not at all uncommon.

Bill

Thanks. I had also wondered what the point was of the chamber.

Let's be clear that while a rapid ascent may well have aided in the positive outcome in this scenario, we shouldn't all overwrite the common sense we've been taught about how to safely surface ourselves and a victim. That is incredibly fast. It was a judgement call that happened to not end poorly.

I'm sorry, I just don't get your point. Surely we were all taught that such ascents are risky, and I'm sure the rescuers knew it at the moment - but being heroic requires risks at times. With no deco obligation and minimum nitrogen loading, it sounds like it was a minimum risk really - but getting her to the surface was extremely important.

I got a PM from a rescuer here once to share the rest of his story with me after some polite comment I made as he wanted to answer me, but did not want to endure armchair critics in the open here. He'd skipped almost an hour of deco to bring up an unconscious buddy, and certainly expected a hit and a chamber ride. The medical experts watched him tho, and he never needed treatment - much to his surprise.

When crap hits a fan, we do our best and hope for the best even in scary actions at times.

 

[Buoy_A]

I am curious (not criticizing) as to the reason for the chamber ride...

IF (and this is a big IF) this was known at the time of the chamber ride what was being treated?

The doctors were aware of how the events unfolded. Someone had the presence of mind to ask all witnesses to write down statements. These were transported along w. the victim to the hospital. There were at least two witnesses at mid-water column who saw the event when the victim was near the surface (although they did not see the genesis of the event), and at least one witness who saw it when she was at depth. So the victim's breathing profile was pretty well understood by those who treated her.

Kudos again to all those involved in the rescue that day; there is simply no doubt about the difference their efforts made.

 

[Bob DBF]

Thanks for the clarification. And, super effort TGIF858!

Oftentimes, I read accident/incident accounts with bad outcomes and sometimes wonder how useful buddies are in practice. I try to learn from the reports but it can also be depressing. This incidence shows the positive outcome that results when competent divers watch out for each other.

You have to realize that a lot of accident/incident with positive outcomes don't get reported, so Dandy Don or others don't get to post the newspaper accounts. And lets face it how many people are on Scubaboard, and of them how many would share, when it will be picked apart for days. I have alluded to, or discussed, a number of incidents I've been involved with in other forums but will not here, because I already have done a much better job of second guessing myself than I will be subjected to here again. Buddies are way more useful in real life than what you hear most times on the accidents forum.

It is great to hear a positive outcome on the accidents forum but I won't expect that often.

Well Done to Power SCUBA.



Bob
--------------------------

That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.

 

[danvolker]

The only thing that did not make sense to me was the chamber ride...in that DCS would have been highly UNLIKELY....

On the other hand, if the idea was to assist brain function after drowning with hyperbaric O2....this would make some sense given the response they mention of her becoming lucid at the bottom depth.....

What do you guys make of this?

 

[mathauck0814]

The only thing that did not make sense to me was the chamber ride...in that DCS would have been highly UNLIKELY....

On the other hand, if the idea was to assist brain function after drowning with hyperbaric O2....this would make some sense given the response they mention of her becoming lucid at the bottom depth.....

What do you guys make of this?

Knee jerk reaction? I wouldn't mention a hangnail in the context of diving when there's an option for a provider to charge your insurance company for a chamber ride.

---------- Post added March 28th, 2014 at 10:06 AM ----------

When crap hits a fan, we do our best and hope for the best even in scary actions at times.

Right. But a rapid panicky ascent creates a scenario where there are potentially two emergencies.

 

[danvolker]

I would be in total agreement with the rescuing divers--particularly if the rag doll falling down to the 80 foot depth with no reg in mouth, was a friend or in my club-- as it seems may have been the case....
For a friend, after a 5 minute bottom time at 80 some feet like these guys had done, I would be heading up at 100% of full speed I could muster with fins and BC...and exhaling hard. I would not expect to be bent, and If I had been down long enough for this to be a concern, I would hand off the unconscious friend to the boat crew and be back at 80 feet in the next 20 seconds...and would then come up over the next couple of minutes ( any Charter boat you take must have a crew competent in CPR -- or what are you doing on the boat ?? )

To come up slowly with an unconscious friend, is the opposite of heroic.

 

[mathauck0814]

I would be in total agreement with the rescuing divers--particularly if the rag doll falling down to the 80 foot depth with no reg in mouth, was a friend or in my club-- as it seems may have been the case....
For a friend, after a 5 minute bottom time at 80 some feet like these guys had done, I would be heading up at 100% of full speed I could muster with fins and BC...and exhaling hard. I would not expect to be bent, and If I had been down long enough for this to be a concern, I would hand off the unconscious friend to the boat crew and be back at 80 feet in the next 20 seconds...and would then come up over the next couple of minutes ( any Charter boat you take must have a crew competent in CPR -- or what are you doing on the boat ?? )

To come up slowly with an unconscious friend, is the opposite of heroic.

I'm not sure worrying about whether or not you're seen as heroic is the paramount concern. I'm also not saying that I'd take my sweet time and knock down a good safety stop before surfacing. There's a world of grey area between 100ft/min and a normal ascent.

 

[danvolker]

I'm not sure worrying about whether or not you're seen as heroic is the paramount concern. I'm also not saying that I'd take my sweet time and knock down a good safety stop before surfacing. There's a world of grey area between 100ft/min and a normal ascent.

He*L... I once scootered behind Bottle nose Dolphins for a half hour, doing each ascent and descent with them at the 300 foot per minute ascent descent rates they swim at.....if it was worth it for this video footage...it would be worth it for a friend.
Fortunately for me and my attitudes, I don't bend easily....over 40 years of extremes and so far "my tables" are 100%.

To the point, bent is not so hard to fix...dead is real hard to fix.....and the issue with handing off and going back down, you have close to 2 minutes durring/after a rapid ascent before the bubbling would start, meaning you can get back down BEFORE you would be bent, if you can make a quick hand off. It would not have anything to do with feeling heroic...it would be feeling like you are doing the "right" thing...or not.

 

[DandyDon]

Right. But a rapid panicky ascent creates a scenario where there are potentially two emergencies.

Yep, we know - but then they can treat injuries. Long term deaths aren't so treatable.

 

[T.C.]

Right. But a rapid panicky ascent creates a scenario where there are potentially two emergencies.

You can arm-chair QB their decision. The results speak for themselves.

I'm not sure I see a risk here. Low dive times, and a diver who didn't breath going down (thus no air in the lungs to over-expand) and a diver who knows to exhale hard on the way up?

Diving is a risky activity. Like all things, you can not eliminate risk, anyone who thinks they can is full of stinky brown matter. What you can do is manage that risk. In this case, the risk was low; and the rescuer properly evaluated that.



I'm impressed. Someone actually took witness statements? Talk about perfect execution. I'm starting to think this club would benefit more from them discussing what they want to improve. Well done to all.