Willing to Lay it All Out There...

[Spratman]

Well, you are certainly free for making your own choices. Have people done it with what experience you have? Sure. Guided dives is usually ducks in a row. Cave divers will give you and Ben a good drubbing about it. It is an overhead environment and that means that there is no direct access to the surface if something happens.

Ben would never take you somewhere that was unsafe. If you want to do it, go for it. It is quite a personal decision. People here are looking out for a new guy's best interest. But you are free to do as you wish. Ben has a couple of more dives that I do, and my personal opinion is that I trust him to train my kids or any of my friends.

However, I would not let my newly minted diver son or daughter do a cenote, even with me along. But the difference is he (my son) kinda got wigged out on a small (very small) swim through.

Oh yeah....Congrats on getting your cert!! Everything just gets better from here.

 

[Mandarin Goby]

This brings up a good question (I hope) that was in another thread. How does one train to do an overhead environment without doing an overhead environment? Do you do various drills like air sharing, panic situations, etc. with no "ceiling" first? I do understand that one needs to get a good number of dives under their weight belts in order to maybe have enough experience so that very common things won't mess with their heads and cause panic...low vis, low light, etc.

 

[TSandM]

Really, what you do to prepare for the overhead is dive. You do need to be smooth and calm in air-sharing, and good with your buoyancy and your trim, and it's best to have a grip on some non-silting kicks, which are NOT taught in open water. But the biggest thing with cavern, cave or technical diving, is to know yourself. Know how you react when things are going wrong and you reach the point where you think, "I don't want to be here any more." Every one of us can be pushed to that point, and a lot of us have probably been there. If you can control that urge and remain calm, focused and rational, and keep trying to solve problems, you're okay in an overhead environment. If you're the kind of person whose mask gets dislodged and floods, and can't be cleared, and your response is to head for the surface, you are not yet safe in an overhead environment.

The problem is that new divers don't know this about themselves yet. I have a very dear dive buddy, one of my favorite people to share time with underwater, and at about 50 dives, he ran into an underwater issue he hadn't experienced yet, and he panicked. He bolted, left the team, ran unslope at a speed I couldn't match, and ended up on shore alone. Neither he nor the other two of us expected this to happen -- It shook him badly, and me, too. Had this happened in an overhead environment, it might have precipitated an accident.

This is why, despite my complete and utter love for the cenotes and their beauty and the magic of diving them, I do not recommend it for new divers. Until you have some sense of how you cope with problems underwater, putting yourself into an overhead environment is a lot of risk. There are quite a few people, including instructors, who think the guided tours are a bad idea across the board. I'm not one of those people, but I think you need good buoyancy, good trim, facility with emergency procedures, and above all, a solid sense of who you are underwater and how you cope with stress, before you go into the overhead. If the cenotes intrigue you, get the experience and the training, and come back! They will still be there.

 

[guggie]

Here's some personal experience for you to ponder.

I'm very comfortable at depth, dark, and in cold lakes. I've had my mask knocked off in open water too. Last November, as I was following my son in Dos Ojos, in a very dark area, I suddenly had my regulator yanked from my mouth as I was about 3/4 of the way exhaled. I continued to exhale (as we are all "taught to do") and found myself just about out of all breath when I found the reg in the darkness and mayhem of bubbles somewhere out in front of me. There seemed to be not a lot of time nor perceived space to do a sweep to find the regulator. At least, that's the way it seemed afterwards. It occurred to me that my son might turn around to see what he bumped so I made the OK sign with my left hand and lit it up with my dive light that was in my right hand. I thought to myself, "I'm ok, I'm ok". I kept moving along following the divers in front of me and peering out at the fantastic formations and dark areas when it occurred to me about 15 seconds later that I was still making an OK sign and shining my light on it. Then it struck me. That lost regulator must have bothered me more than I realized.

Are you prepared for this at your level of experience? Have you done a lost reg retrieval when your lungs are empty and you are not prepared for the event?

I'm going back to PDC this May and looking forward to more open water dives and more cenote dives. I plan to practice more lost regulator retrievals in a pool with my eyes closed and mask pulled off too.

 

[BTravlin]

I have never dived the cenotes but I have always thought they were basically underground rivers with plenty of air space above the surface, at least the ones they take OW divers into. Is this correct or are they really cave dives?

 

[ben@scorpiodivers.com]

len,
i ll look forward to reading your write up on the cenotes, chiken ha is a wide open cenote, barely any overhead environment or covering, chac mool, dos ojos... will have to wait til next year. (20 dives min) actually i ve finsihed a couple of open water courses in chiken ha when the ocean is a blow out, always an option , great dive!

 

[Spratman]

To your question, there are distinctions between recreational diving and technical diving. Rec diving is limited to 132fsw. Below that requires special training. This is where technical training comes into play. First off, technical diving is not for everyone. Second, it is REALLY expensive!

It did not take long for me rec diving to decide there was more adventures out there to be had. The biggest factor is where do you want to be in five years. There are many, many people on this board that are quite happy with rec limits and challenges. Others want to push the envelope and themselves. That will almost always involve more risk factors.

As with anything, proper training is key. As has been mentioned many times, you train and practice skills before you enter the overhead environment. That way, for the most part, you have already practiced for some of the most common problems. In technical diving, it is not only yourself that you need to be concerned with but also is much more team diving approach.

If you are curious about this, read some of the threads in the tech diving section. We have lots of people here with lots of experience. Ask questions, most people will be glad to give you their take on it.

Most of all nothing prepares you for diving more than diving. Some courses have minimum requirements, however, you and only you know if you are ready for the next step. Find a tech instructor, maybe at your local training facility. I don't know ANY of them that do not like talking about the sport. Be commited, it takes time and resources.....heavy on the pocket book. You may be a fast tracker and a good instructor will recognize and make suggestions.

I hope to dive with you sometime. Most of all, have a great time diving!! That is what it's all about.

 

[guggie]

len,
i ll look forward to reading your write up on the cenotes, chiken ha is a wide open cenote, barely any overhead environment or covering, chac mool, dos ojos... will have to wait til next year. (20 dives min) actually i ve finsihed a couple of open water courses in chiken ha when the ocean is a blow out, always an option , great dive!

That's a good safe policy! Chiken ha will serve as the appetizer and definitely leave the new diver wanting more.

 

[Mandarin Goby]

Well, I got back from Chiken Ha, and it was amazing! I will say that due to the advice on this board, I questioned Gwen, the guide, very carefully, on whether he thought this would be a safe dive for me. I really wanted to respect and defer to the people on this board, as I find their opinions very grounded and reasonable.

We talked about all of the things I'd encounter...I asked about the tightness of the environment, etc, and as he described it, I felt it would be okay. I still allowed myself to back out as we got ready, as my family was snorkeling, and I was content to do that.

As we were driving down, we found out Chiken Ha actually was going to be closed today, but they let us in, which was awesome, so it was only us (a group of four divers and Gwen, our guide), and my family snorkeling; plus a few divers from another company.

I felt EXTREMELY comfortable in this environment, much more than in the ocean. With no currents, perfectly clear vis, comfortable temps (in a 5mm full suit), I had an absolute blast. I was right behind the guide, so when things got a little weird, I'd just concentrate on his light. Had to clear my mask a few times, had equalization problems once, which I solved, etc. And what made it nice was just Gwen's calmness...when he briefed us (and everyone was new to the cenotes), he explained that we will just make sure we are all solving our problems right there. For some reason, that made me even more relaxed.

As much as I love the ocean dives (and yesterday's were great, and I plan to do some final morning dives tomorrow), I must say, this was one of the greatest experiences of my life. The first descent was so peaceful, and I was able to control my buoyancy and any silting. It was like floating in cool, refreshing air.

The first dive went extremely quickly...Felt like 10 minutes, and it was 35 or so.

The second had a narrower swim-thru. Very short...like 15 feet or something. Gwen asked me whether I wanted to do that, and that I could not if I wasn't comfortable when the time came. I was very comfortable doing it. It was super fun to go through that little tunnel...the whole thing felt like buoyancy exercises.

The halocline was cool, too...a little bizarre, and didn't want to stay in it too long. I was really trying to keep an eye on the guide, and that weird jelly-like vision got a little strange after a while.

The only trouble I had at the end of the second dive was that I had to pee REALLY badly for the last 10 minutes! ;-) So when we were finishing, when the guide pointed his light down I thought we were going back into another crevace...and I was getting a bit concerned.

I don't think you've ever seen a fully geared up diver move on land as fast as I did getting to the restroom.

Anyway, I think Ben made a good choice...Chiken Ha was REALLY great. No pressure, very comfortable, peaceful, and beautiful. I felt not one bit of worry or panic, which I tend to do on ocean dives so far before descending. And yummy non-salty water! I feel he knew what I could do and what the other divers could do, and wouldn't put me in a situation out of my depth. That's ultimately why I decided to do it. I trusted Ben, Gwen, and my own sense of relaxation as I started the first dive. Knowing the first would be easier than the second, it allowed me to get used to the whole thing.

Finally, if I need 20 dives for any of those other cenotes, I my need to take two tomorrow morning, or skip them on my next Mexico trip, cause I don't feel like diving in some stinking low-vis quarry this summer ;-) What can I say...I'm getting spoiled!

Really, finally, I will say that I CAN see how people can get seriously wigged out in an environment like that. Interestingly, a point Gwen made actually makes sense to me...that this experience will help my ocean dives. I'm seriously more scared of a big wave crashing over me than being in the dark, although when Gwen was describing cave certification training, it sounded like something I will NEVER want to do...EVER.

Thanks, guys!

 

[Spratman]

Glad you had a great experience. Cave training will definitely make you a better all around diver.

No current is a big plus, although there are flows in some cave systems. A dive buddy of mine decided to go with cave certs because he gets violently ill on boat trips. Cave was a perfect fit for him.

Yeah, getting back into quarry diving and low viz ocean is a drag but it's one of those things. I dive where I leave, hell....I've dove in small mine holes that were 25ft deep and had a great time in 3ft viz. It depends on the individual.

One thing, never say never. I never thought I would be looking at becoming a cave diver. But it's the allure of the caves that beckon. When you get more dives under your belt, maybe a good test is getting cavern certified. But stay with the OW diving first. Challenges will present themselves in different ways.

I didn't start diving until I was 50. It was something I always want to try and when I had less kids at home and in college that was the time. I wish I had down this back in the day. But now, it keeps me active, though I have to get in better shape. And it keeps me broke....

Good luck with future diving!