Wife describes losing husband - Maui, Hawaii

[Charred]

To me, this article is driving to blame the DM. To me, these ops that turn DMs into underwater babysitters are just asking to get sued in the event of an issue. People think they are safe and take no personal responsibility for their dive.

The part about the DM messing with buddies is hilarious. I buddy on the boat, we jump in together, we descend together, stay together, etc. As a dive couple they should be used to diving together.

There is a lot wrong with the widows attitude.

 

[uncfnp]

I too do believe that, as written, the wife is trying to place blame on others. But whether its for litigious reasons or just seeking to justify her own behavior and alleviate her feelings of guilt I am unsure. Most likely the latter.

 

[drrich2]

I was surprised that the widow in the OP vaguely remembered learning about narcosis in her OW class decades ago but hadn't heard about it since. The fact that she remembers it being covered in class so long ago suggests to me there may be nothing wrong with her memory, which in turn suggests it really hasn't come up much in the sphere of her awareness since. It's hard for me to imagine that, but in thinking about it, my experiences differ greatly from hers. I've only been certified about a year, during which time I've been active on this board, especially reading A&I.

There's an important point here. I left off some additional content, where Esprise Me mentioned a book he'd read and some other content that provided education/awareness about narcosis, because I want to zero in on the perspective of a Scuba Board poster.

Whether we are relative newbies, intermediate rec. divers with no professional or technical credentials, dive instructors, tec. divers or what-have-you, those who regularly post on Scuba Board and participate in these discussions likely share an avid interest in diving, and invest a significant portion of our free time in an ongoing perusal of scuba-related content.

We keep reading about it. Over a long time.

Now, speaking of those warm water vacation divers (I've often been one) who mainly participate in guide-led group dives high mainly high-viz., low current 'aquarium-like' conditions. After these people get an OW, maybe AOW and/or Nitrox cert., how many spend time on scuba forums, read scuba magazines, participate in local dive shop discussions or otherwise maintain an ongoing active mental engagement with this hobby?

And how many just keep going on 2-dive morning boat trips once or twice on vacations following a guide around, without much ongoing investment otherwise? Or something close to that? Those of you who've worked as guides, instructors or on dive boats, any guess what % we're talking about here?

I'm not saying the latter are entitled to be subjected to exhaustive scary briefings about the terrible things that can happen to you. I'm just wondering how the world looks from their perspective.

Richard.

 

[dmaziuk]

My question was specifically regarding the part where they said they were going to descend separately and buddy up underwater.

Hard to say: it's common enough to "go down and assemble at the anchor" with DM not actively watching each and every one of you go down in pairs holding hands IME. Doesn't mean they were ordered to descend one at a time and only those who make it down then decide who buddies up with whom.

 

[Esprise Me]

To me, this article is driving to blame the DM. To me, these ops that turn DMs into underwater babysitters are just asking to get sued in the event of an issue. People think they are safe and take no personal responsibility for their dive.

The part about the DM messing with buddies is hilarious. I buddy on the boat, we jump in together, we descend together, stay together, etc. As a dive couple they should be used to diving together.

There is a lot wrong with the widows attitude.

So I agree that buddies should descend together, and the divers are ultimately responsible for making sure they do. And of course there are some lingering questions about the accuracy of the reporting. But let's say the DM did, in fact, tell the wife to go down with the first group while the husband and another diver who had trouble descending before went with another DM, with the plan that the buddies would reunite on the bottom. Can we agree that's not OK? Can we agree that, while the buddy couple should have said no and insisted on sticking together, that they shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place? Can we agree, even if we don't want to go so far as to hold the dive op liable in a civil suit, that if we found out this was standard practice for them, we'd steer our loved ones elsewhere out of concern that our loved ones might go along with that instruction to split up, as these two did, even though they ought to know better? This isn't about blame; it's about prevention.

I'm also not sure what you're trying to say about babysitting. If anything, urging buddies to split up and rely on the DM, as was allegedly done here, is an example of that, while reminding people to stick with their buddies and watch out for dangers such as narcosis is the opposite. That's encouraging and empowering divers to take responsibility for their own safety. Can't we agree that would be a good thing?

I said earlier I've never heard of buddying up on the bottom, but I realized that's actually not true. On my first ocean dive during my OW course, my buddy was having trouble descending, and the assistant instructor told me to go down with the instructor and the rest of the group while he helped my buddy. I knew better, but I did what I was told. It wasn't the only time in that course they took a shortcut for expedience and had us do things differently than we were taught. I wonder how widespread this sort of thing is, and how much that contributes to divers' attitudes. If the pros act like breaking the rules is no big deal, it shouldn't surprise anyone when their customers come to feel the same way.

 

[drrich2]

But let's say the DM did, in fact, tell the wife to go down with the first group while the husband and another diver who had trouble descending before went with another DM, with the plan that the buddies would reunite on the bottom. Can we agree that's not OK? Can we agree that, while the buddy couple should have said no and insisted on sticking together, that they shouldn't have been put in that position in the first place?

I don't know, in part because I don't know how much the DM knew of the capabilities of these two. The word 'told' is a bit perilous, too; is being 'told' taken as a suggestion (i.e.: how about this, are you all right with doing it this way?), a request (i.e.: please do it this way) or a demand (i.e.: a person in perceived authority giving a directive that'd be at least awkward to challenge)?

The other reason is because I suspect a number of divers would be okay with going down with a group to a defined meet up point, never alone, while their partner was escorted down by a dive professional along with another diver. This could reduce the task loading on the DM, who only has 2 people to monitor during descent.

Not everyone would agree to do it that way, but I think some would, and I'm not convinced it's unacceptably dangerous to do so.

In another matter, I've got to wonder whether her going down with those 3 would have been of any benefit. They both made it down.

"When they were all together, Sharp was about eight feet from Monday and the group was about five feet off the crater’s wall.

They looked at each other and Monday motioned with her hands to ask Sharp if he was OK. He signaled back that he was."

Then

"When they were all together, Sharp was about eight feet from Monday and the group was about five feet off the crater’s wall.

They looked at each other and Monday motioned with her hands to ask Sharp if he was OK. He signaled back that he was."

I wonder how much more 'buddying up' they expected to do. Any pre-dive checks would've been done back on the boat. They both got down. He signaled he was okay. They were with a group, and paused to watch some sharks for a minute or so.

What more were these 2 going to do with each other if the sharks hadn't wandered by and the DM hadn't banged metal sticks together and pointed them out?

 

[JackD342]

I said earlier I've never heard of buddying up on the bottom, but I realized that's actually not true. On my first ocean dive during my OW course, my buddy was having trouble descending, and the assistant instructor told me to go down with the instructor and the rest of the group while he helped my buddy. I knew better, but I did what I was told.

That scenario does not sound problematic at all to me. You each still had a buddy, and you each knew that when you separated and that both buddies were in good hands. Let's just say your instructor called an audible, as sometimes happens.

But, I do have a concerning but not quite frightening experience to relate. Back before I became a dive pro, I was in Roatan diving at CoCo View. If you have never been there, every time the boat goes out to a dive site you can do a second "drop off" dive on the way back in where the boat will drop you, and you make your way along the wall back to the resort and exit via the shore dive path. (A bit of navigation skills needed sometimes needed.)

The drop offs can be rushed, and we all got in the habit of "meet you on the bottom." I don't recall if there were some surface currents contributing to that haste or not. On one such dive I went down with the other divers in our group, expecting my buddy to follow. That was the last time I saw him on that dive. After a few minutes of waiting/looking for him, the group leader (instructor/owner) from the home shop bounced up to look for him. No luck. Then I bounced up. Also no luck - no diver, no boat. So we worked our way back to shore a bit faster than usual, but not at breakneck speed. We met up with him on shore.

After I had left the surface but before my buddy had entered the water, the boat crew stopped him and made him wait until they had repositioned the boat - it was drifting too close to shore. By the time he entered, it was nowhere near our group. He looked for a while, and then joined another group that he encountered underwater and made his way back.

I no longer leave the surface without my buddy.

 

[Bob DBF]

If the pros act like breaking the rules is no big deal, it shouldn't surprise anyone when their customers come to feel the same way.

I feel the "training by catchphrase" encourages to blindly follow the "rules" and emulate the instructor, rather than understand why one has these rules, and make a reasoned decision for ones actions. If the rule is not followed by the instructor outside of class it must not be that important for anyone, since he is the expert.

Rules are rules until a dive professional is inconvenienced.


Bob

 

[Trailboss123]

There is so much that could be said about this incident and how it was reported and communicated. I guess for now, the only thing I'd like to contribute after 10 pages of other comments is that if I were a Divemaster working regularly on a dive boat taking divers out to dive the backside of Molokini, you can bet your bottom dollar that my briefing would include:

1. The fact that we are not diving a location with a hard bottom within recreational limits
2. The need to be very conscious of your dive depth and profile
3. A mention of gas narcosis and its potential effects given our dive location and what I already mentioned about how easy it is to exceed your planned maximum operating depth given the dive site particulars
4. Given all of that, stay close to your buddy and maintain situational awareness

I would have a bunch of other stuff to say, but those things would be part of the briefing given the dive location. If I was leading a blackwater night dive over open ocean and the hard bottom is 5,000 feet below, you can bet I will have some additional bullet points.

Whether or not I am legally obligated to say or communicate any of those things is another conversation. Not one I want to engage in right now.

I am a Divemaster (not vocationally) and I choose to believe the best about people, their intentions and their certification and competence level and want to believe what they tell me about themselves. I treat everyone with dignity and respect.

However, my experience has taught me that I should take all of that with a grain of salt and over-communicate, over-explain and be overly-concerned. I would rather risk pissing off and boring the experienced diver on the boat, in order to cover the bases and re-communicate the basics with the masses. The masses are vacation and irregular divers-- They are not Scubaboard regulars and devotees.

I have been a DM and dive guide on the So Cal coast, So Cal Channel Islands and in the Pacific NW of the USA-- these are not recreational warm-water dive locations visited by tourists. These are locations being dived by people who are pretty educated, committed and hard core- Nevertheless, I have recognized the need to over-communicate and speak to all sorts of potential hazards with these local and visiting divers. How much more so if I were DM'ing or dive guiding in a vacation dive location like Maui?

 

[Rooster59]

The times I dove Molokini were awesome. The weather was great, as was the boat and the crew. Kona coffee, fresh pineapple, whales everywhere, it was awesome. One thing I remember was almost nobody paid any real attention to the dive briefings. I'll bet half the divers didn't realize the back wall went down 300 feet or so.