why would any one get a jacket BC

[MSilvia]

Ok, then 'Implies that most jacket users have no interest in how their equipment performs and are to cheap to spend money on good (meaning BP/w) equipment

I don't read that point as making any kind of statement about a particular gear configuration, only that most divers are occasional vacation divers who couldn't care less... they're no more interested in an expensive backplate than they are in an expensive jacket, and will buy or rent whatever will get them underwater for a good price.

If it's a gross and unsupported claim... well, there might not have been a formal scientific study to back it, but one is hardly needed. Anaecdotal evidence supports it, and it doesn't matter anyhow... it's not Mandy's dissertation review, it's a conversational post on an internet discussion board. If you find it insulting, I hope that's something you can come to terms with.

Most divers are diving for fun and doesn't care for performance and are budget minded, it doesn't make sense to invest in more expensive gear if you dive a couple of times per season.

 

[Mandy3206]

once again a BP/W user implies that using a jacket is wrong


Implies that I (jacket user) have no interest in how my equipment performs and am to cheap to buy their equipment



suggests that those on SB who agree with her point of view are above average and the rest of us don't care/ are to stupid to realize how right she is.



Seems to say ' I got a BP/W, a Buddy got one, found another diver who used one and that is it, no one else I have seen uses one"
which means she has seen/dove with very few divers, or that BP/W use is the substantial minority.



While the last may or may not be true, is an unsupported generalization

1) I never implied that you or anyone using Jacket Style BC is wrong at least it wasn't my intention.

2) I'm not talking about you at all, I'm talking about the average diver out there that even doesn't remember how to use the dive tables, the vast majority out there.

3) What's wrong with you man?, get the bug out of your ......., I'm talking that here in SB the members like you, like to dig things out and learn from other divers experiences, and by the way FYI Mandy is a nickname for Armando so not a she.

4) At least you got one right here, If you look closely, I got more than 500 dives, in fact a tad over 700 right now and your correct point is that BP users is the very small percentage out there, thus all my remarks before.

5) Last one is based in my own experience, maybe if you go to Florida it may not apply there, but generally speaking it's very rare to find a diver outside this board that knows what a BP is and much less how it works.

I'm not trying to sell BPs or anything, just expresing my opinions based on my own experience. If you or anyone else want to dive a Jacket, that's fine with me, no SCUBA police is going to arrest you, but you clearly have a problem with others that disagree with your point of view, making you a fanatic, which you're entitled to.

Dive what you want and as you requested before don't imply things from my post, just read what's posted and don't add anything else like implying stupidity, wrongness, cheap diver, ect. If you feel stupid, cheap or feel wrong about using your gear, that's yours to resolve with yourself.

 

[Hank49]

I, myself, am looking into what type of BC to try/buy. I thought it was good timing too, with this thread popping up, but it's been downhill since page 2. I'm no closer to a decision after reading these 9 pages. I just hope that if I go bp/w that I don't become as elitist as some of its users...

That's an intersting point of view. Kind of like switching to (fogive me if this is outdated, I'm not up on fashion) Calvin Kline jeans makes one elitist and cooler....maybe some think like that. But in this case, I think it's that most BPW users are converts given that as was stated, most learn in a jacket. And I have to admit, being a recent convert (1 year now) after 10 years in a jacket, it has worked better for me. My setup is adjusted for my leg heavy body type so I use a stainless BP. This allows for no weight belt and allows me to almost sleep while horizontal. Perfect balance. And it feels like I have nothing on. Just my 3 cents.....

 

[Xanthro]

Good deals are out there. Hammerhead for example sells a nice plate with STA for $99. I got my Explorer wing for $250, but I've seen others for less. The ScubaL Maximus singles wing is $159 if I remember right, and the Oxycheck Singles wings run in the mid $200 range. That makes for a $250-350 BP/Wing system, which is cheaper than the $380 you'd spend on an Oceanic Probe. Sure, you can spend a lot more... off the shelf, a Halcyon plate and Explorer wing would run you almost $600, (only $100 more than a ScubaPro Classic Plus jacket), but if you were so inclined, you could shell out $900 on a BC.

If you wanted to, you could get an Aeris Atmos Sport BCD for $180, which I'll grant is cheaper than the cheapest BP/Wing I can find, but I think the difference in terms of what you get for the money is substantial.

The problem is that as a whole BP/W is more expensive than BCD.

Sure, you can get an inexpensive BP/W setup for less than some BCDs. I can buy a brand new nice BCD for $200. You aren't getting a new BP/W for that price.

I think BP/W is superior in almost every respect but price. It's likely cheaper in the long run ever since basically anything can be replaced and the plate itself isn't going to deteriorate. My only concern is people thinking it's cheap to buy an BP/W and it isn't.

 

[Xanthro]

Nope. You'd have to convince me that it's easier to put on and adjust a harness with only one buckle than a simple vest. Furthermore, you'd have to convince me that it's easier to travel with a large steel or aluminum plate with the added weight than a simple vest and bladder.

Why try and convince you?

I'm sure for many people it would be harder getting into a BP/W setup. People are different. For me, it's easier than a standard BC.

One of the reasons I purchased a BP/W is because it packs tighter than my old BCD. This leaves more space for actual clothes in the dive bag.

 

[MSilvia]

I can buy a brand new nice BCD for $200. You aren't getting a new BP/W for that price.

You can definately buy a new vest BCD for $200, but I'm not sure it'll be a "nice" one. Adequate, okay... but nice? I think you're looking at another $50-$100.

For $260, I can get a brand-spankin' new 6lb SS backplate and STA with a 40# singles wing and a Hogarthian harness. That makes the price comparable in my book.

 

[MSilvia]

Nope. You'd have to convince me that it's easier to put on and adjust a harness with only one buckle than a simple vest. Furthermore, you'd have to convince me that it's easier to travel with a large steel or aluminum plate with the added weight than a simple vest and bladder.

What is it that makes you think a vest with multiple adjustment points is simpler than a BP harness with one? Is a belt harder to adjust than your BC?

Anytime you want to come up this way, I'd be happy to let you take mine for a spin and see if that convinces you.

 

[SangP]

Guys,

There are always proponents and opponents to different rigs out there. Pretty much like masks, no one size fits all. This isn't a competition and so long as your gear matches your needs, is safe and comfortable that's ok.

However, it would be good to keep an open mind and whenever given the opportunity to try something new like a bp/w or jacket it's a good idea to just give it a go rather than shutting the idea out as heresy.

Dir folks and the vocal bp/w guys might try to force feed you the idea of bp/w as their experience have shown it to work and these guys might shudder at the thought of using anything else.

I have friends who prefer jackets as they are photographers and feel that the jacket allows them to position themselves better. At the same time, bp users often complain about the squeeze of jackets and the bulky feeling underwater.

For me, I have been using a bp all the way after open water and have never looked back however, I won't pass up the opportunity to try something old or new as a matter of gaining new info about certain gear.

Whatever the outcome of this thread, diving gear isn't a religion nor a competition, just use what you are comfortable with and try to use and learn whenever you are give the chance.

Nuff said.

SangP

 

[H2Andy]

Dir folks and the vocal bp/w guys might try to force feed you the idea of bp/w as their experience have shown it to work and these guys might shudder at the thought of using anything else.

i'm glad to see you take a balanced approach to this debate and controversy

:14:

 

[spectrum]

For single tank rec diving a jacket is perefectly good piece of gear. Assuming like everything else it is the right one and is used correctly.

If more jacket buyers put the time and attention into their rigs that BP&W divers sink into selecting components and setting it to fit then there would be a lot more happy and capable jacket divers.

A BP&W is ideally suited to technical diving and can also be a fine single tank rec rig.

Pete