why use argon for drysuits
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mweitz
Contributor
becuase it has good thermal properties and is warmer than air. The helium in trimix is the opposite which is why, especially if you are breathing trimix.
You can find the info in the thread linked by mweitz, but to put it succinctly:
Because they can't use the gas in their main tanks for drysuit inflation if they are using a Helium mix.
Helium has a much more higher thermal conductivity, so if you use it to inflate the drysuit, you will lose body heat much more quickly. Since we need to have a seperate inflation gas anyway, using the warmest gas available that's not too expensive makes sense. The benefits of Argon over air is widely debated, which means although it may be theoretically warmer, it is not really a night-and-day difference. Many people actually just use air in the 'Argon' bottle.
On the other hand, Argon is pretty cheap. It costs less than $1 for a couple of dives unless I am yo-yoing all day.
If you already have a seperate inflation system, using Argon may benefit you.
But if you don't have a seperate inflation system, and don't breath Helium mixes, then
IMHO it's not really worth the extra cost or hassle. If you need to get warmer, much
more cost effective and easier to just get a better undergarment.
Because they can't use the gas in their main tanks for drysuit inflation if they are using a Helium mix.
Helium has a much more higher thermal conductivity, so if you use it to inflate the drysuit, you will lose body heat much more quickly. Since we need to have a seperate inflation gas anyway, using the warmest gas available that's not too expensive makes sense. The benefits of Argon over air is widely debated, which means although it may be theoretically warmer, it is not really a night-and-day difference. Many people actually just use air in the 'Argon' bottle.
On the other hand, Argon is pretty cheap. It costs less than $1 for a couple of dives unless I am yo-yoing all day.
If you already have a seperate inflation system, using Argon may benefit you.
But if you don't have a seperate inflation system, and don't breath Helium mixes, then
IMHO it's not really worth the extra cost or hassle. If you need to get warmer, much
more cost effective and easier to just get a better undergarment.
Bob3
Contributor
*ding ding ding*
we have a winner, Paulwlee nailed it.
In the only scientific study on air vs argon as a drysuit inflation gas, there was no measurable difference between the two.
If you'd like to read the article, it's posted here with permission of the UHMS (Undersea Hyperbaric Medical Society): http://www.angelfire.com/ca/divers3/Argon.pdf
(500kb PDF file)
we have a winner, Paulwlee nailed it.
In the only scientific study on air vs argon as a drysuit inflation gas, there was no measurable difference between the two.
If you'd like to read the article, it's posted here with permission of the UHMS (Undersea Hyperbaric Medical Society): http://www.angelfire.com/ca/divers3/Argon.pdf
(500kb PDF file)
Dryglove
Contributor
I have also read that in order for the argon to work properly you need to have a larger cylinder of the stuff and flush your drysuit with it a few times to purge all of the air out thus leaving you with a very high concentration of argon. So more than likely if you strap on your argon set up and use it without flushing your suit first there probably wont be much of a difference.
cdennyb
Contributor
My reason is cost. It's probably true at least in part that not much is measureable in thermal properties under actual use in a dry suit but the cost of breathing trimix or nitrox and then 'wasting' it in your dry suit instead of your lungs is a factor. Same goes for the BC. That's why I have a 13 CUFT BOTTLE WITH TWO LOW PRES HOSES ATTACHED AND AN opd ON A mk10 REG.
db
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A physician freind and dive buddy of mine attended a DAN hyberbaric conference in South Africa this summer and the results of a double blind study of argon efficiency were discussed. With neither the experimenters nor the divers knowing who had what, there was no measurable difference in either subjective feel or internal and external body temps between divers using argon or air.
This makes sense to me as theoretically argon is only about 1/3 less effient at conducting heat than air. So even with a perfectly purged suit (hard to achieve and attempting it requires a fair mount of gas) you would only get a 1/3 improvement over air. It makes more sense to use slightly warmer underwear instead.
With helium's much greater thermal conductivity, there is still the argument lingering that argon would be a better choice for an inflation gas. It is certainly a better choice than using helium in the suit, but again it offers no advantage over using air as the inflation gas.
With argon you still need to purge the air from the suit consuming far more argon than if you used air, with no purge requirement, potentially requiring a larger inflation bottle or more inflation bottles per dive day. And then there is still the problem with the double blind results that argon produces no measurable increase in warmth.
So I see no reason to go to the extra bother and expense of argon even when diving with helium. With helium you still benefit greatly from a separate inflation system, but it will do just as well filled with air.
Of course institutional inertia, habit, stubborness and perhaps a desire and willingness to spend a lot of money to achieve every last ounce of theoretical improvement (and look cool in the process) should ensure that argon use limps on for a while longer.
This makes sense to me as theoretically argon is only about 1/3 less effient at conducting heat than air. So even with a perfectly purged suit (hard to achieve and attempting it requires a fair mount of gas) you would only get a 1/3 improvement over air. It makes more sense to use slightly warmer underwear instead.
With helium's much greater thermal conductivity, there is still the argument lingering that argon would be a better choice for an inflation gas. It is certainly a better choice than using helium in the suit, but again it offers no advantage over using air as the inflation gas.
With argon you still need to purge the air from the suit consuming far more argon than if you used air, with no purge requirement, potentially requiring a larger inflation bottle or more inflation bottles per dive day. And then there is still the problem with the double blind results that argon produces no measurable increase in warmth.
So I see no reason to go to the extra bother and expense of argon even when diving with helium. With helium you still benefit greatly from a separate inflation system, but it will do just as well filled with air.
Of course institutional inertia, habit, stubborness and perhaps a desire and willingness to spend a lot of money to achieve every last ounce of theoretical improvement (and look cool in the process) should ensure that argon use limps on for a while longer.
Soggy
Contributor
cdennyb:
For the record, that's a horrible idea. It makes it such that a single failure will cause you to lose both sources of inflation. In addition, you lose the potential for using the BC inflator as a third regulator. Nothing about this configuration makes sense for the couple bucks of helium you save out of it.
Spectre
Contributor
cdennyb:
I don't know where you get your mix; but my argon [at $.40 cu/ft] is more than trimix with $.50 cu/ft helium].
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