You had me at "Sure ..." Now if only you were about a thousand miles closer (or if I was), you'd have another loyal customer.
why so mean..
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You had me at "Sure ..." Now if only you were about a thousand miles closer (or if I was), you'd have another loyal customer.
Not to worry the UPS truck runs by this way every day! And we have a store in St. Louis, and another satellite training center in Denver! So, we're not that far away!
Jupiter31
Contributor
"As far as getting gear serviced... When you buy a car from your neighbor, your local dealership's service department won't shun you for having bought the car from your neighbor. They will be happy to have your business."
And if you buy a NEW car from the dealer cross town or a county over, same brand, the dealer closest to your house services it without any issues, certainly not the BS SOME LDS' are famous for.
And if you buy a NEW car from the dealer cross town or a county over, same brand, the dealer closest to your house services it without any issues, certainly not the BS SOME LDS' are famous for.
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Sorry Jupiter, apples and oranges.
If I take my car in for warranty service, the dealership charges the manufacturer for the cost of the repair. If it is a "normal" job, the service department has a book that says how many hours it should take to do the job and you will be billed for that amount of time regardless how quickly the job is done. Rarely will you ever be able to get a freebie from a dealership if you take a car in for service that you didn't purchase from that particular dealership.
I don't charge for warranty repairs regardless of where you bought your regulator, as long as it is under warranty. The manufacturer is the one that sets the warranty terms (car and scuba), not me. If I ask you to prove it was bought at an authorized dealer, so I can at least get my parts replaced from the manufacturer, is that bad? If someone is just honest with me and says, it's not under warranty. I tried rebuilding it myself and I bent the piston when I dropped it. I really thought I could file it down straight. Don't tell me it just came out of a shop that way. I promise I won't try to insult your intelligence until you start insulting mine. Heck, I might even offer you some tips on rebuilding it yourself.
Graeme Tolton
Contributor
Perhaps people who don't know what they are doing, shouldn't be servicing regulators themselves. I am a lisenced auto mechanic. I have no problem tearing down your engine into 400 pieces or tearing your transmission down to 300 pieces. I will replace all of the parts that need to be replaced and get you back on the road, ready to go. However, I also have no problems paying an experienced tech to overhaul all of my regs every year.
Yes, the warranty terms are supposed to be set by the manufacturer. This is not always truly the case. "If you do service package D, we will replace your faulty transmission for you" Sounds like extortion and you would be surprised by the fear of someone faced with the cost of a transmission repair/replacement. I am not condoning this type of business practice, but it happens every day. Even this "normal job book" can simply be made up by the individual dealer (and often times is). Truth is, do your research before you buy anything.
Jupiter31
Contributor
Is this thread still going strong????
My point - and its valid - concerns the fact that some - not all - LDS's refuse service on gear if it was not purchased from an approved source - that was my point.
I fully understand that while eq is under warranty, and the mannufacturer is on the hook for parts, a different story - but some refuse to service period, and that is the part I find troubling - sure, if necessary, charge the customer for parts that by buying from an "approved" source the customer would not have to pay for.
But don't refuse to service the equipment, especially if the customer is willing to pay. It happens; numerous threads/posts about just this situation.
My point - and its valid - concerns the fact that some - not all - LDS's refuse service on gear if it was not purchased from an approved source - that was my point.
I fully understand that while eq is under warranty, and the mannufacturer is on the hook for parts, a different story - but some refuse to service period, and that is the part I find troubling - sure, if necessary, charge the customer for parts that by buying from an "approved" source the customer would not have to pay for.
But don't refuse to service the equipment, especially if the customer is willing to pay. It happens; numerous threads/posts about just this situation.
TMet
Contributor
The first LDS I went through was great. Always helpful and ready to assist my wife and I in any way possible. I happily spent well over $5k at that shop buying mine and my wife's gear there and we both got certified through them. That was until one of their instructors saw me when he was teaching a class at my favorite dive site. I was wearing a drysuit and a BP/W they don't carry. I had purchased them elsewhere only because the shop was unable to order them. Since then we basically get treated like crap. When I took our regs in to be serviced, they refused to honor the free parts and service for life deal they offered when we purchased them. This deal is why we went with the top of the line instead of the mid range we had planned on. It has been probably 9 months since my wife completed her nitrox class and she still has no C-card for it, and they just tell us to come back next week when we ask about it. I could go on and on about how bad the shop treats us. I feel like I'm a nuisance if I have to go in there even if I'm planning on spending money.
Obviously, we have found a new shop to patronize. The experience with them is completely different. We get deals on fills since we are regulars, they price match even online retailers, always open for questions, and offer good advice. I could spend hours there just talking with the owner and employees even about non-dive related subjects, and do regularly. If they can't get something we're looking for they will help us find a good deal on it either at another LDS or online. If we find something we do want there and they have something else that is better suited for us they will recommend it, even if its significantly less expensive. Unlike the first, where if we wanted something there was always pressure to buy something more expensive or additional gear we didn't want or need. They run a shop like it should be run IMO. I don't feel like a customer there, I feel like I'm at a friends house that happens to be a dive shop. I would happily pay more then what they charge for products and service just for the welcome environment and service they provide. But, I know they would never let me.
Just look around, you'll find a great shop. They are out there.
Obviously, we have found a new shop to patronize. The experience with them is completely different. We get deals on fills since we are regulars, they price match even online retailers, always open for questions, and offer good advice. I could spend hours there just talking with the owner and employees even about non-dive related subjects, and do regularly. If they can't get something we're looking for they will help us find a good deal on it either at another LDS or online. If we find something we do want there and they have something else that is better suited for us they will recommend it, even if its significantly less expensive. Unlike the first, where if we wanted something there was always pressure to buy something more expensive or additional gear we didn't want or need. They run a shop like it should be run IMO. I don't feel like a customer there, I feel like I'm at a friends house that happens to be a dive shop. I would happily pay more then what they charge for products and service just for the welcome environment and service they provide. But, I know they would never let me.
Just look around, you'll find a great shop. They are out there.
You had me at "Sure ..." Now if only you were about a thousand miles closer (or if I was), you'd have another loyal customer.
Darn... You would have me too if you were 10,000 km closer:doh2:
:doh: nope... UPS trucks can't drive to me here :doh:
Seriously tho.. I don't think you need my business... an attitude like yours is the closest thing there is to a guarantee of success in Business :worship:
You get what you give goes both ways. Our loyalty to the LDS decreased at the same rate as their effort to earn our business.
For the Dive Shops that want to stay in business here are a few tips:
DON'T
1) leave "Old customers" standing for 30 minutes while you chit chat with "New customers trying to impress them" (people will eventually get fed up & spend their $ elsewhere)
2) tell customers "You don't need good fills... you don't go through much air anyway" (They deserve to get fair product for their $)
3) tell customers "You just have a personality clash with ******" when they complain about rude treatment from a staff member (Others have not given you the courtesy and just taken their business elswhere)
4) tell customers .. go find the best price and let you know what it is so you can beat it (They will feel like you are asking them to do your job... make sure you know what the products are selling for)
5) tell customers this is a super special deal for them only when the price is significantly more than the next nearest dive shop is advertising on the RADIO for the same product!
6) say nasty things about customers to other customers. (They will think you do the same thing about them).
Never forget
This business may be your livelyhood but it is the Customer's leisure time activity. It is your responsibility to put food on your family's table. It is the customer's responsibility to put food on their family's table expenditures for leisure activities will be sacrificed in hard times so the customer can put food on their family's table.
*putting away soap box now*
Just my .02
I don't know the specifics, but often a customer (some times unintentionally) pours salt in what is an old wound by coming into a shop and telling them about the great deal they just got on e-bay, from leisure-pro, etc. If it is a used reg, the shop has no real way of knowing where you bought it and sometimes clarifying the situaion will not help. "I got it as a gift" if it is new or "I inherited it from my uncle who was passionate about diving can you fix it" if it is used can be white lies / social niceties that head off an argument. But remember the shop would be treating you fairly for charging you for adjustment services on your reg that they would not charge you had you bought it there and since you are not one of the established "good customers" yet, you may not get the same semi under the counter good deals they may give to their longer standing loyal customers. They should not abuse you or treat you badly, but you have zero track record with them so far and have so far not spent a dime in their shop - so they may well devote more effort to an established loyal customer. For example the good customer may get a same day turn oround on reg servcie in a pinch prior to a trip or get a loaner reg while you will wait a week and have to rent a reg if you need it.
It can be unfair though, if you recently moved, you may well have gotten it where you previously lived from an authorized dealer, yet I have seen shops grill new customers just because they do not know who they are and they did not sell them the reg they want serviced. That is a mistake that a good shop won't make. They will instead service the reg and if the customer can prove they are the original owner, offer any warranty/free parts stuf they qualify for. If not, they will service the reg anyway and welcome them to the local area.
Now...if the reg owner comes in and brags about getting the reg on-line, that is pretty much like waving the flag in front of the bull, especially if they were in the shop earlier shopping and looking at that same model in the shop.
One of the best shops I ever worked with would take any reg they originally sold back in on trade toward a new one. They then sold the used refurbished used regs (as well as their 2-3 year old rental regs) to cash strapped divers just starting out. That is the "first hit is almost free" marketing strategy that got my starving college kid self addicted to diving and it eventually resulted in the sale of a newer and better reg when I could afford it. Some shops also use close outs and the greater price flexibility they offer to compete with on-line sales.
It takes some understanding on both sides. The customer needs to realize the often unfair competition the current look the other way attitude companies have to uncontrolled internet sales places on the dealers. The company and the customer needs the local dive shop for service, air, etc, but both want to profit / save by selling / buying on line. The delaer is stuck stocking items and paying for retail floor space for low volume sales of big ticket items where a customer may use the shop but then save $50 buying somewhere else.
Leisure Pro makes it even worse by advertising "list" prices that are actually well over the MSRP, creating the impression that local dive shops sell items for more than they actually do which has the effect of discouraging customers from even trying to get the LDS to price match. It is quite frankly a dishonest practice (Along with quoting "savings" that are 2-4 times greater than they really are) that just adds fuel to the fire.
As a general rule if you looked at an item in a shop, you have an ethicval obligation to buy it from a shop. It costs the shop a great deal of money to stock the item , pay the sales staff and rent the floor space to provide you with an oportunity totouch, feel and ask questions about the reg. If you want to buy on line and save a few bucks, that is ok, but limit your self to browsing websites and don't take advantage of the convenience of the sales floor to help make your decision, then buy that product on-line as it is not much different than shoplifting from the perspective of the LDS.
And if you are cosidering an on-line purchase call the local dive shop and see what they can do for price.
Bowl of petunias is right on the money regarding customer service - many shops really suck at it. Often the owner is a diver with business sense and customer service skills running a distant second and third. Some just plain have poor people skills that would offend their own mother and if they are smart they hire a good manager and stay out of the shop entirely.
It can be unfair though, if you recently moved, you may well have gotten it where you previously lived from an authorized dealer, yet I have seen shops grill new customers just because they do not know who they are and they did not sell them the reg they want serviced. That is a mistake that a good shop won't make. They will instead service the reg and if the customer can prove they are the original owner, offer any warranty/free parts stuf they qualify for. If not, they will service the reg anyway and welcome them to the local area.
Now...if the reg owner comes in and brags about getting the reg on-line, that is pretty much like waving the flag in front of the bull, especially if they were in the shop earlier shopping and looking at that same model in the shop.
One of the best shops I ever worked with would take any reg they originally sold back in on trade toward a new one. They then sold the used refurbished used regs (as well as their 2-3 year old rental regs) to cash strapped divers just starting out. That is the "first hit is almost free" marketing strategy that got my starving college kid self addicted to diving and it eventually resulted in the sale of a newer and better reg when I could afford it. Some shops also use close outs and the greater price flexibility they offer to compete with on-line sales.
It takes some understanding on both sides. The customer needs to realize the often unfair competition the current look the other way attitude companies have to uncontrolled internet sales places on the dealers. The company and the customer needs the local dive shop for service, air, etc, but both want to profit / save by selling / buying on line. The delaer is stuck stocking items and paying for retail floor space for low volume sales of big ticket items where a customer may use the shop but then save $50 buying somewhere else.
Leisure Pro makes it even worse by advertising "list" prices that are actually well over the MSRP, creating the impression that local dive shops sell items for more than they actually do which has the effect of discouraging customers from even trying to get the LDS to price match. It is quite frankly a dishonest practice (Along with quoting "savings" that are 2-4 times greater than they really are) that just adds fuel to the fire.
As a general rule if you looked at an item in a shop, you have an ethicval obligation to buy it from a shop. It costs the shop a great deal of money to stock the item , pay the sales staff and rent the floor space to provide you with an oportunity totouch, feel and ask questions about the reg. If you want to buy on line and save a few bucks, that is ok, but limit your self to browsing websites and don't take advantage of the convenience of the sales floor to help make your decision, then buy that product on-line as it is not much different than shoplifting from the perspective of the LDS.
And if you are cosidering an on-line purchase call the local dive shop and see what they can do for price.
Bowl of petunias is right on the money regarding customer service - many shops really suck at it. Often the owner is a diver with business sense and customer service skills running a distant second and third. Some just plain have poor people skills that would offend their own mother and if they are smart they hire a good manager and stay out of the shop entirely.
bill-da-ho
Guest
my $.02
I bought a reg and first stage along with the SPG off ebay, my lds was fine with servicing it. Even tho he had serviced it, I still have some doubts about the purchase. I'd rather buy from my LDS, so that if I have questions or problems, I can get face to face with the person who sold it to me.
I recently purchased a new BC, I asked the owner of the LDS what brands he was able to get, told him I was looking at them online, but would purchase it from him, so he told me the brands he could get. I found the BC that I wanted, was priced at 499.00, called up the LDS, asked him about the same BC,, his price was 509.00. Thats where I bought it. First dive?? the inflator wouldnt shut off, called the LDS right then and there,, he told me what to do.. would online service been able to do that?? NOPE
I know I'm off the point of the OP, but there are more reasons to buy from the LDS than just price. If you have an LDS that you trust with training you how to stay alive under water, then you would probable trust them with your equipment as well??no?
This doesnt excuse a salesperson from being mean or rude. If they explain their position, service your equipment and gain your trust, your next purchase would more than likely be from them.
I wont shop from anywhere but my LDS now. I want him to stay open so that I can get air fills too, those are hard to come by online. Not to mention if I'm spending my dollars in his store, maybe he'll be spending his in mine.
Just my two cents
I bought a reg and first stage along with the SPG off ebay, my lds was fine with servicing it. Even tho he had serviced it, I still have some doubts about the purchase. I'd rather buy from my LDS, so that if I have questions or problems, I can get face to face with the person who sold it to me.
I recently purchased a new BC, I asked the owner of the LDS what brands he was able to get, told him I was looking at them online, but would purchase it from him, so he told me the brands he could get. I found the BC that I wanted, was priced at 499.00, called up the LDS, asked him about the same BC,, his price was 509.00. Thats where I bought it. First dive?? the inflator wouldnt shut off, called the LDS right then and there,, he told me what to do.. would online service been able to do that?? NOPE
I know I'm off the point of the OP, but there are more reasons to buy from the LDS than just price. If you have an LDS that you trust with training you how to stay alive under water, then you would probable trust them with your equipment as well??no?
This doesnt excuse a salesperson from being mean or rude. If they explain their position, service your equipment and gain your trust, your next purchase would more than likely be from them.
I wont shop from anywhere but my LDS now. I want him to stay open so that I can get air fills too, those are hard to come by online. Not to mention if I'm spending my dollars in his store, maybe he'll be spending his in mine.
Just my two cents
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