Why should I support my LDS?

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If dive shops went out of business, free lance instructors would be happy to teach diving, some of them might organize trips, and there are plenty of compressed air places in any sizable town that could provide breathing gas to divers. What do you think firemen do? Actually, I guess some go to dive shops, but if that option were unavailable, others would become available.

So it might be a little less convenient to get fills, that's true. But, IMO dive training would truly improve by being separated from the retail sales part of the industry. With the current business model, dive shops train students for one reason; to create a market for their gear sales.

In my business classes in college, they called what is going on in the scuba industry today a "paradigm shift."

...And it's a natural market progression in a capitalist society. Someone, somewhere figures out a more efficient way of getting product to the consumer (in this case, the internet), and he enjoys a competitive advantage, which quickly dominates the market. In this case, this has also lowered prices, as it has negated the retailer's largest expense (the brick-n-mortar store) and improved sales efficiency.

Interestingly, when the distributors to many online retailers found out how these sales were occurring, they realized that it was now possible for consumers to purchase scuba gear without a C-card... And thus they developed a policy for "no internet, phone or mail order sales." That sounded good, but...

The retailers simply found another supplier for the goods. They either went overseas to other distributors, purchased directly from the manufacturer, or found the same product, still in it's original packaging, being sold second-hand, even though it was still new.

Interestingly, many places like Leisurepro DO have a brick-n-mortar store. They are an LDS in New York City... Which REALLY confuses things... They ARE an LDS, just one that's embracing the internet as a means of sale.

...Which is a benefit to everyone in the supply chain, from the manufactuer to the manufacturer's suppliers to the consumer, and everyone between. Simply put, this has been a study in the efficiency of a sale and how to improve on it and benefit everyone.

...Well, everyone except those who do not follow the paradigm shift. Those that reject internet sales or attempt to stand in front of the paradigm shift bulldozer will find themselves run over. :)

What's really entertaining, though, are peoples' reactions. I constantly hear things like, "Support your LDS." I DO support my LDS - they're in New York. My "local" is just different from yours. :) I also hear things like, "No warranty." This practice is illegal and incorrect, and at some point someone's going to get sued for claiming that. Now there's this thread here on ScubaBoard, which is probably the world's largest scuba community, regardless of whether it's online or not. Hey, people - if you like your local dive shop and want to do business with them, then cool... Feel free.

I travel a good bit, and frequent shops all over the Southeastern US. My typical experience with brick-n-mortar dive shops is this:

1. There's usually a very small amount of gear from one or two manufacturers - so my choices are immediately limited.
2. That gear that they have is usually overpriced by at least 50%.
3. There is usually a 16-25 year-old manning the retail store. Often they are too busy texting or being distracted to even notice that a customer just walked in.
4. Assuming that I am noticed, they typically have very little scuba knowlege. Forget the idea of ME getting advice from THEM. The worst offenders don't know what they're talking about, and don't know that they don't know what they're talking about... That is, they're double ignorant... Which makes it really annoying when I am trying to purchase something that I'm staking my life on.
5. The prevalence in thought throughout the store tends to the "surface logic" side of things... Almost totally, what I see in the shop is something that LOOKS like a really good idea in the store, but is really a horrible idea when you're diving. Head lamps, giant 420 stainless steel knives, air-integrated BC systems like the "elevator lever" BCs or the Mares HUB system proliferate. When the 18 year-old attempts to convince me that the latest split fin is a revolution in design, I've got one foot out the door.

The only argument that makes any sense is that the LDSs DO provide a place for divers to rent gear that they don't have and get air (gas) fills. Unfortunately, since I own three compressors of my own and know how to maintain them and do safe fills, I am alarmed at the practices I see when the 18 year-old goes to fill my scuba tanks. Apparently, even when EVERYTHING is done incrorrectly, it's STILL not easy to blow yourself up, 'cause I know of a lot of dive shops that are WAY overdue for a catastrophe.

Our local community in Beaufort has seen about half a dozen dive shops come and go in a period of about 20 years. Any market analyis will show that clearly, there is no profit to be made owning a local dive shop here. There's a variety of reasons for it, but brick-n-mortar overhead, poor management practices, high retail pricing, seasonal (both calendar and economic seasons) issues, and low diver-per-capita ratios are some of the leading reasons for retail failure.

...So how does Deep South Divers survive? Well... We're not a dive shop. We're a commercial entity. That is, we are paid to dive under boats and docks and do whatever people need, for a price. We have salvaged, untangled, cleaned, fixed, repaired, trenched, burned, welded, and all sorts of things. Simply put, this economic model works - it'd be financially stupid for me to create a local dive shop, although that's the industry standard, and what divers locally have always expected me to do.

Instead, I point people to the internet for gear purchases and fill their tanks for a fee when they come by. I know they get great gas (I use it myself) and that everyone's safe and good to go.

When divers need training, I point them to the guys that work for me - two of them are instructors. You'd be amazed at how great some of these new divers are when they get one-on-one personal attention from an instructor, who is thrilled to be able to teach under those conditions, and charge a slight premium for the individualized schooling.

By summertime we'll start a club, too, for those divers who are looking for the comraderie and air fills. I'll be sure to use an economic model that will enable the club and the compressor to sustain themselves financially... But rest assured, my company's profit margins will come from labor - the work we do - not from overcharging for a product or declaring "no warranty," or attempting to sell people things that I know doggone good and well don't work as advertised.

Believe me, my company is not alone - there are other entities like mine that are filling tanks, maintaining solid profit margins, and whose owners are actually DIVING, and so can offer real advice and point new divers in positive directions.

I suspect that THIS may be the new paradigm shift. I feel that the way that we do business is cutting edge (imagine - we actually WORK for our money and actually DIVE, not just TALK about diving) because our focus is "back to the basics."

...So will the casual diver disappear tomorrow if the dive shop closes down? Absolutely not - people just have to find a business model that works, and they will not only keep their doors open, but thrive.

They've just gotta get their heads out of their tails. :) Trying to "guilt" the consumer into purchasing is a really poor business plan. Refusing to warranty a product because they didn't buy it in your store is a really poor business plan. Selling garbage gear that's more marketing and fluff than useful dive gear is a really poor business plan. Walking around and complaining that the "internet is the worst thing this industry's ever seen" is a really poor business plan. To me, when I walk into a shop and see or hear these things, it's synonymous with a dive shop in it's last throes of death. My expectations are that the shop will permenantly close it's doors just as soon as the owner's savings and credit run out... Usually within a matter of a few months.

...Which is entertaining with regard to the "warranty" argument. What happens when I buy something from them and then later need warranty work? If the argument for "buy at an LDS because it's under warranty" is valid, then who's going to service my gear when the LDS is gone?

The answer, of course, is that I'll have to find another shop that'll do it at a reasonable rate. Just like any other good or service that I purchase, I'll shop around and find a reputable place to have work done. Like before, Google will probably have the answer. :)

Meanwhile, anyone needing fills is welcome to come by any time. We charge $10 each for tanks, and can fill 2 at a time in less than five minutes... And still give cold fills. :)

...And anyone needing a personal compressor - I'd be happy to sell one of my AirTexes (safe, reliable, reasonably used and excellent condition) for $1500. If you don't buy it, I'm sure that an enterprising diver local to you will, and maybe they'll supply you with fills... :D
 
Just teasing :wink:but it does remind me how much I used to dread getting everything in VIP and Hydro each season when I was diving OC.
 
Anybody that wants to dive and doesn't have a place to get tank fills.

By the time you've bought some stage bottles, a half dozen tanks, a drysuit or two, three or four (or more regs), a few pair of DS underwear, maybe some doubles, a BC, a BP/W and all the other stuff that people eventually buy, blowing $4K on a compressor to save a 3 hour drive for tank fills doesn't sound that far out of line.

Right now, I can get great fills at my LDS, and there's little chance of them closing, however if they did, I certainly wouldn't give up diving.

Terry

Dude, like you, I'm a major scuba gearhead, that being said, at least I realize that I'm highly atypical in that respect, and I acknowledge that I'm on the very far end of the bell curve and my behavior isn't to be used to build a viable business model upon. I think we both know the VAST, VAST majority of the diver population will walk away from this sport LONG before they tolerate a level of effort needed to be doing their compressor/fills/gas mixing. It's my understanding the diver population is already at best, holding steady (flat no-growth) or perhaps even declining, not having affordable/easily accessable gas fills as local dive shops will pretty much kill this sport, and it will certainly kill off the lower end socio-economic demographic divers, if the only way to get fills is while on spendy trips requiring spendy travel expenses.
 
I don't think they have the same tank connections as SCUBA, but nothing an adapter couldn't fix, and I don't think they have the same air quality standards as a SCUBA compressor since they aren't using the air while under pressure, water pressure that is.

A buddy of mine works in the Fire Department and I was looking at their air fill station trying to get an inside of some low cost air fills. :D

Great thought process... And easier than you might think.

Fire houses equipped with compressors are required by law to be "Grade E" or better... So the gas is the same gas that is available at your local dive shop. Some dive shops purify their air even more making it "hyperfiltered" or "oxygen compatible," but for the most part, they simply pump "Grade E."

That said, most fire houses do a surprisingly poor job at maintaining their compressors. Oil should be changed at least twice a year, whether the compressor was used or not. Most compressors are equipped with a filter system designed to only run 30 hours or so... And in unusually humid environments, I recommend every 15 hours. If nobody can remember the last time a filter was changed, it's been in there too long.

Call Bauer in Virginia with the serial number and pictures of the system for their recommendations. You'd be surprised at how few places maintain their compressors properly.

As far as the fill whip goes - yes, a firefighter's SCBA tank has a different valve fitting than your scuba tank does. There is an inexpensive adapter that you can use to solve the problem.

...Now, the real issue is going to be how to get the Fire Chief to allow you to use his compressor. :)
 
So where does the insanity stop for purchasing extremely expensive gear just so you can keep diving? What's next? You gonna start buying all the equipment necessary and do all the training necessary to start doing your own tank hydro's and VIPs?

I can certainly do a VIP, and would be willing to drive (or ship) my tanks to a hydro facility every five years.

Terry
 
We have 2 LDS in our area. I frequent both of them and use the internet also. I'm sure both would prefer my business exclusively, however; they don't threaten, badmouth, use scare tactics, or down one another or the internet. The world is what it is. Air fills are reasonable, pool time, advice, BS sessions are free, and their prices aren't exhorbitant. They will work on gear from anywhere or anyone. Each shop fills a certain niche, one is more tech oriented and the other supplements the store by also running a ski shop in the winter to offset the dropoff in scuba. They have parties throughout the year with free discover dives to increase the potential customer base. I have never been pressured by either to buy any special, configuration, or product, and they have been more than willing and helpful in discussing the pros/cons (their opinions of course) of any purchase considerations I have had. They get my business because they are reasonable in pricing for some of the items I want, they are realistic, and I LIKE them. Businesses get my loyalty because they provide a service/product that I want/need at reasonable prices with NO attitude. There are quite a few LDS out there that "Get It". There are LDS that are also internet retailers. These are astute business men/women that understand the business and have the agility/flexibility to stay in business. The shops that don't see the benefits of being creative in these times may well end up closing. No shop deserves or is entitled to my business, just because they aren't competitive. If a shop doesn't see the writing on the wall they may be doomed to failure, but; if there is a large enough demand for a service in an area, there will eventually be someone to fill that need. IMHO.
 
Dang, Deep South Divers! I type so slow, or you are a typing Wizard, that you posted alot of what I was trying to state :wink:, in my less than eloquent way.
 
I really don't think you're looking at this from a newer or vacation diver perspective. Based on the equipment you listed above you are not in the 'average diver' category. You have been doing this far too long and accumulated more equipment than most new vacation or occasional divers will ever dream of. So the cost of a compressor would never even cross the 'average divers' mindset as they don't dive with the frequency you do.

If the LDS isn't there to help these people they will move on to another sport and give up diving all together. The sport cannot survive without a continued influx of new divers. We need the LDS as much as they need us.

First, I'd like to say that I really like my LDS. Otherwise I wouldn't teach there essentially for free. However the question was "what if" and my answer is that SCUBA would not disappear if the LDSs vanished. It would be different and not quite as convenient, but people would still be diving.

As far as the new divers go, it really wouldn't bother me at all if it was a little more difficult to get into diving. People who like to teach would continue to do so, but SCUBA wouldn't be pushed as a cheap weekend thrill to pick up on vacation.

Terry
 
Who cares about "the sport"? As long as I have dive gear (and the stuff I have might very well last me the duration) and there are oceans, how is the sport going to die for me?

So, if you're the 'last man standing', and all the other divers have been thrown under the bus, are the dive boats/resorts gonna keep their doors open and be there for ya?

Or will the gear manufacturers hang around, standing ready to supply the world's last 'self-sufficient' diver when he/she wants new toyz or to replace old/broken toyz ?

This sport needs a critical mass of divers/$ to keep all the infrastructure we take for granted alive.
 
I can certainly do a VIP, and would be willing to drive (or ship) my tanks to a hydro facility every five years.

Terry

Ditto. The closest hydro facility is an hour and a half from me in Savannah. About once a year I take a few tanks down there, drop them off, and pick them up a week later. It's a good excuse to take the wife out to dinner or peruse one of the malls there.

VIPs are easily done using a $10 light specifically made for the purpose. Believe me, I trust MY eyes better than that 18 year-old from my post above. :)

Heck, you should be able to do your own VIPs anyway... It's easier than filling your car's gas tank.

Why all the magic and mystery surrounding this sport? Could it be that the LDS has been trying to justify it's existence for decades by telling everyone how complicated all of this stuff is?
 

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