Why not Fundies?

[Rick Murchison]

He kept asking the same plate/wing question and finally we broke down and got some. Badaboombadabing everything just fell into place as slick as you please and we never went back to diving anything else for any kind of diving.

I'm a "best-tool-for-the-job" guy...
Tomorrow morning I'm going to try to take some macro shots up in (low vis, very silty) Lake Martin. I won't be taking either of my BPs nor any of my wings. I won't be taking a long hose. I won't be wearing a dry suit. Not 'cause I don't have these things, mind you, I do... But I'm going to wear an old ratty 3 mil wetsuit (for excursions below the second thermocline), a Seaquest Explorer (Tropical jacket/mostly rear inflate) BC with an Air Source as a safe second and a standard length (28" I believe) primary hose. That's the best rig for the "job" of having the best time with the least effort while taking macro shots, where I want neutral longitudinal and lateral stability.
If I were going to choose a single "BC for all seasons" my choice would be the Dive-Rite Transpac II.
Have fun...
Rick

 

[kirwoodd]

See, that's one of my problems with the whole concept of DIR. If somebody tells me I should have something to make me a better diver, I will evaluate it and possibly do what they say or at least try it out. But when somebody tells me that their (anal) way is the only way to do it ... I tend to be a bit stubborn (and maybe it is the best, I honestly don't think I am in a position to know for sure at this point). But to tell me that I have to buy new equipment just to try their way is really pushing it. I have a back inflated wing type BC, but no, that is not good enough to allow me to evaluate their way.

Essentials sounded like exactly what I was looking for, until I found out that it would cost me coast-coast travel plus hotel and meals to attend that ... might as well buy the BP/W at that rate. Oh well, guess I will keep looking.

Right on brother.

I bought what I bought when I took the class. Did I get sold a pile of useless gear? Nope. Did I get the best? Nope. It may be the best for someone, but not me. One thing is for sure, I REALLY think that wrist computer/gauges is the way to go, gotta get me an upgrade.

But check this out, when I push the blue "inflate" button on my BC, I BECOME MORE BUOYANT! and when I push the little black button, air dumps from my BC and I BECOME LESS BUOYANT! wow! and when I put the regulator in my mouth... You guessed it, it supplies me with air and I can breathe underwater!!! Dood, it is SUPER cool!

Yes I hear you "sure it WORKS, but is it SAFE?!?!?" Yes, as safe as any other gear for what I do. I dive at < 60' , I don't do caves, I don't penetrate wrecks (there is a joke in there somewhere), and I always dive with a buddy. I have 20 dives now, and I will certainly have differant gear and procedures by the time I have 100 dives, and the gear I pick will be based on what I see other divers using, both DIR and non-DIR divers.

 

[Walt1957]

You really ought to give it a shot.

I agree, and I really want to ... but I just wish that there were less roadblocks. I do not know if it (DIR) will be right for me, but from all that I have heard the class would be right for me as far as helping me improve my skills either way. And, until I hear the full reasons, and experience the difference, I can't make a valid judgement.

I am not afraid to fail the course, and in fact I know that I will. If it is as good of a learning experience as I have heard then it would not be a true failure in my mind.

Are there shops that rent BP/W's? The ones I have seen just have the cheap vest types for rent. That would make it much easier for me to try the class right there.

Excuses possible to give to explain the decision:

* I'm a recreational diver
* I'm cheap
* I'm afraid of TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms)
* I may excel among the "rabble"
* I might look an ***** among "a$tronauts"
* I don't have the available time to work on a "pass" and...
* I am unprepared to accept a "fail"
* My buddy told me that's a cult

Well, the only one of THOSE excuses that applies to me is #1, but since I haven't seen any reasonable alternatives for rec divers to get good training I guess that cancels out that excuse.

Cheap, no, but not on an unlimited budget, either. That is the one that will delay, though not invalidate the choice. Especially since ultimately any equipment changes would apply to three of us in my family, not just me.

Afraid of TLAs? IFM (I'm former military) That should need no further explaination.

Excel among the rabble ... that just isn't good enough for me anyway even if it were true.

Look an ***** among "a$tronauts" ... I've never been afraid of looking bad compared to others ... as long as I know I look good compared to *me*

... that's a cult - hmmm, isn't that what non-divers say about all of us?

 

[Rick Murchison]

Are there shops that rent BP/W's?

Don't know 'bout Maryland, but around here shops let you try-before-you-buy... come on down to Lower Alabama & we'll let you try one.
Rick

 

[MikeFerrara]

I'm a "best-tool-for-the-job" guy...
Tomorrow morning I'm going to try to take some macro shots up in (low vis, very silty) Lake Martin. I won't be taking either of my BPs nor any of my wings. I won't be taking a long hose. I won't be wearing a dry suit. Not 'cause I don't have these things, mind you, I do... But I'm going to wear an old ratty 3 mil wetsuit (for excursions below the second thermocline), a Seaquest Explorer (Tropical jacket/mostly rear inflate) BC with an Air Source as a safe second and a standard length (28" I believe) primary hose. That's the best rig for the "job" of having the best time with the least effort while taking macro shots, where I want neutral longitudinal and lateral stability.
If I were going to choose a single "BC for all seasons" my choice would be the Dive-Rite Transpac II.
Have fun...
Rick

Rick, that's suicide, DON't DO IT! LOL but seriously, there's some major differences between you and some of the divers posting in and reading this thread. 1st, you have the dive skills. I know you're more skilled than the average rec diver because I saw you. Second, you have the experience to be able to assess the functionality of a given configuration for the diving that you intend on doing.

By contrast, many of the divers here have been presented with and have used one single basic configuration. Whether they realize it or not, they weren't given a choice about it either. They haven't evaluated it or tested it against other configurations or anything of the sort. Any diver considering a DIRF is still working on basics. The GUE course not only teaches the basics of diving in general but, specifically, the basics of DIR hence the course name "DIR Fundimentals"

GUE presents one configuration. Other agencies like IANTD, have very detailed sections in their courses that present options and detail how to evaluate a configuration. See the IANTD technical diver encyclopedia...it's a good read. They have several well known divers including JJ and Tom Mount present their configurations and explain why they do what they do. The chapter presents a list of some 20 or so points to consider when evaluating a configuration. Other agencies or instructors also just present one option but give no explanaition as to why and don't compare it to anything else.

I'm certain that you'll do fine on your photo dive but that gear is NOT the right tools for participating in a GUE class.

 

[neophyte]

with another thought provoking post that's turned into a giant thread full of both great information and entertaining hijacks. Very well done indeed. So well done that I finally feel the need to add my two cents.

I'm still very new to diving in general and GUE/DIR in particular, having been OW certified last November (~70 dives altogether) and taking DIR-F ~two months ago (received a provisional).

Being so new, I spend more time reading questions here than answering them, but it seems I'm in a good position to speak to people considering taking Fundamentals.

It's said quite often on this board that someone considering a course should worry more about the instructor than the agency. While that may (or may not) be a bit less true when it comes to GUE with their relatively exacting standards, it certainly still applies in many ways.

I can only speak with authority about how the two (incredible) instructors I had ran things, but that should be enough to convince people who're avoiding taking DIR-F based on assumptions that the best thing to do before taking anything for granted is to speak to a prospective instructor.

Anyone who wanted to attend the opening lecture (a full eight hour day in my case) was welcome to for free, without any obligation. Questions, outright objections and debate were encouraged.

The gear requirements were not quite as strict as the website would lead you to believe and, the instructors seemed to welcome the opportunities this provided for clear and present demonstrations of why they found some choices less than optimal for the procedures being taught.

Not only was strict adherence to the online gearlist not required, the instructors' personal equipment was offered up for students' use.

I'm not saying GUE/DIR is for everybody, I'm just saying that no one should avoid it based on possibly mistaken assumptions without speaking to an instructor and finding out the facts.

YMMV

Thanks for reading all that,

Adam

Oh yeah, I know that several of the things I just mentioned were brought up more than once over the 500+ (so far) posts in this thread, but I continued seeing things that just might not be the case mentioned as reasons to put off taking the class. That's all.

 

[michaelb51]

Walt1957: above you cut into a quote of a post where I quoted TSandM, inadvertantly crediting (or debiting as the case may be) my words to that poster.

Actually, I said:

Excuses possible to give to explain the decision

* I'm a recreational diver
* I'm cheap
* I'm afraid of TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms)
* I may excel among the "rabble"
* I might look an ***** among "a$tronauts"
* I don't have the available time to work on a "pass" and...
* I am unprepared to accept a "fail"
* My buddy told me that's a cult

TSandM is without sin in this regard.

 

[mtg]

well i'm not gonna read all these posts so I'll just ask and look stooopid:

what the heck are ya'll talking about? Googled DIR and even fundies: the latter was interesting but not helpful ;-).

 

[HowardE]

well i'm not gonna read all these posts so I'll just ask and look stooopid:

what the heck are ya'll talking about? Googled DIR and even fundies: the latter was interesting but not helpful ;-).

I think you need to google "Fundies -underwear" and you'll get a more refined search. The - (minus sign) will eliminate any of the underwear for 2 results.

 

[jonnythan]

well i'm not gonna read all these posts so I'll just ask and look stooopid:

what the heck are ya'll talking about? Googled DIR and even fundies: the latter was interesting but not helpful ;-).

DIR:
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=44823

DIR-Fundamentals is a course taught by GUE as a prerequisite to their technical and cave training:
http://www.gue.com/