Why not DIR ?

[OE2X]

Dennis,
Your last post almost needs a frame and a place in my office where I can see it at all times. Wish I was as good with words.

Cutting slack to GUE divers:

One thing to keep in mind especially dealing about old farts like me. Some of us have come around after years of diving w/o GUE protocols. When we finally discover how much we didn't know about diving and at least in my case, how poor my skills were, we wonder why we weren't smart enough to have been diving this way all along. It's the age old adage of "Wish I knew then, what I know now or hindsight is 20/20". Then after implementing these new skills many of us - when attacked - fall into the deadly trap of all knowing. In otherwords, we say "I dove that way for a lot of years and dives, but by god, now I know better." We then up the anti by saying something stupid like: "If you haven't taken a GUE class then how do you know it sucks?" SO - what I'm trying to get at is that for some of us long time divers who have embraced some of what GUE offers we can and often do cop the attitude of "Been there. Done that. Know a better way now." It's a defensive measure when being attacked. Unfortunately it's the wrong defense. Personally I'd rather just go diving and if someone has questions about my gear or my skill set and doesn't seem defensive, then I'll answer any and all questions to the best of my ability.

Another thought: When I was looking in from the outside at GUE/DIR I thought man o' man those boyz are way too uncompromising. Cult, nazi, koolaide drinkers etc... were names on the tip of my tongue. I'm glad though that I kept an open mind and was willing to try going down the path. I am not nor will I ever be the embodiment of DIR. I don't need to be. I can tell you though, that I feel within the confines of my education limits that I am now a competent diver.

 

[Diver Dennis]

Thanks, but I don't know how good I am with words. I think most of us do the same thing as far as being defensive, all the time. I know the tone of my answers is usually tempered by the tone of the question and as you so aptly pointed out, I will go out of my way to help someone who really wants to know. There is nothing wrong with being happy with the path we take in our dive training but equipment and training is always evolving and we should keep an open mind if we want to evolve with it. It's not just the old farts, me included, it is the overzealous newly trained divers as well. All knowing comes from many directions.
I'm buying a BP/W. The reason? Some good advice from some good divers. I'm not replacing my jacket BC, not yet at least. I do think it's important to be the best we can be in any endevour and for diving, gleaning what we think are the best methods and equipment no matter how it is categorized. I'll take good ideas from where ever I find them.
In most of life, perception is reality. As soon as someone mentions DIR or GUE a lot of people do think of a "cult" or "Kool-Aid drinkers", instead of advanced technical training. A perception perpetuated by a few usually causing an over reaction by the other side. As you said, you chose your path with an open mind and now you are the kind of diver you want to be. In my opinion good divers are just that, good divers. The best are not usually looking to label themselves.
I appreciate your post OE2X.

 

[Vayu]

The kool-aid thing needs to stop, though. Alot of people there were forced to do it. Let them rest.

No one on either camp wants to force a style on anybody else. GUE or not, diving is about having fun and being open minded. Try things out and see what works for you.

Whatever you do, beware of the internet!

-V

 

[OE2X]

Advanced Technical Training - ATT

I like that a heck of lot better than DIR. If JJ wasn't so full of himself, I'd say pass that on his way. GUE hurts itself with the term DIR. I hope that Andrew will turn out some good things for NAUI. Hopefully they will think of something like ATT before they find themselves eating their own egos.

 

[cmalinowski]

It kind of goes both ways doesn't it Chris?

Yes, but people only seem to mind the GUE divers critisizing--even if they don't actually critisize. Anyone who critisizes GUE divers is just OK and not "conforming to the religious cult." That's the part that's funny.

It's sort of like the republican machine. They can critisize anyone they want, but if you critisize them, you're unpatriotic and hate all gods. See my tag line. It's more telling than people realize and holds true for all sorts of things. People get defensive on both sides of this and one always thinks that the other is "wrong" and it's not over until there is victor. That's why this gets old.

Chris
edit: the quote is "Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous. They will always equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive." Henry Steele Commager

 

[Vie]

Advanced Technical Training - ATT

I like that a heck of lot better than DIR. If JJ wasn't so full of himself, I'd say pass that on his way. GUE hurts itself with the term DIR.

Agree that often the intepretation of the term "DIR" does more harm than good to GUE - don't agree with "ATT" though.

GUE training is not necessarily "advanced" nor is it strictly "technical" (for example, GUE OW, DIR-F, Rec TriOx).

 

[cmalinowski]

Never met a DIR myself but a buddy who works at a LDS had a bad experience with one once. He did all what you say non DIR do. So if he (and I) would base our perception of it by that encounter, we sure would have a bad opinion of the system. Fortunately, I never base my toughts on a single encounter because I know it's not always representative. (And I think he was more a dirwannabe anyway). I also talked with friendly-non-arrogant-non-elitists DIRs here so I know they are not all the same. But as Dennis says, it goes both sides.

So, I can't help it:

Economics Teacher: Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
Simone: Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

You can't be serious though... I, for one, don't think that all non-GUE divers are a-holes, even though many have stood out in that category. Some even to friends of mine

Chris

 

[Derek S]

Agreed. It's like I always say, I'm not racist or prejudiced. Morons are moronic, regardless of race, creed or beliefs. This holds true on both sides of the GUE/Non-GUE fence.

I too get cracked up over the "I've never met one, but my next door neighbor's daughter, who once dated a guy who was having an affair with a woman who did the hair of this person who met this guy who was diving in all black. He had a GUE card and cockeyed-smile, so therefore all DIR divers are elitist jerks."

 

[cmalinowski]

wetrat has a point and I already mentionned it in another of these flamy threads. The name is an important part of the problem. It is not respectfull of great not-GUE divers and it gives DIR-wannabe or DIR newbies or just some plain stupid persons, the impression that because they were trained in their way, they can trash everything and everyone else. It reinforce the elitist way of some in need of attention. Of course, it's a minority of GUE trained people that fall in the category identified in bold but as always, the majority have to pay for the minority's attitude.
Get rid of that name and you get rid of a good part of the problem IMHO.

The same could also be applied to non GUE and even outside the diving realm.

And it's usually at this point, where we break down into the "name is the problem" point that things begin to fizzle out. It's a name. I dive diverite gear. That doesn't mean that other gear is wrong. It's a name. You seem much more intelligent and secure in yourself than to let a name feel like an attack on you or your diving.

Holy cow, "PADI-The way the world learns to dive."--I guess I'm not of this world if I didn't get PADI trained.

While I don't necessarily like the name, most people call it DIR and not "doing it right." And it never even dawned on me when I first learned of DIR that it implied that I was doing it wrong. I guess I'm just not that self-concious...

Chris

 

[Diver Dennis]

Yes, but people only seem to mind the GUE divers critisizing--even if they don't actually critisize. Anyone who critisizes GUE divers is just OK and not "conforming to the religious cult." That's the part that's funny.

It's sort of like the republican machine. They can critisize anyone they want, but if you critisize them, you're unpatriotic and hate all gods. See my tag line. It's more telling than people realize and holds true for all sorts of things. People get defensive on both sides of this and one always thinks that the other is "wrong" and it's not over until there is victor. That's why this gets old.

Chris
edit: the quote is "Men in authority will always think that criticism of their policies is dangerous. They will always equate their policies with patriotism, and find criticism subversive." Henry Steele Commager

Public debate is good for society if it is kept civil. This debate rarely is but censorship is not they way either...


The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion.
Henry Steele Commager