Why is PADI so conservative?

[Afakasi]

There is no difference between PADI and SSI recommendations on the dive limits for divers.

I just finished my 8 week SSI OW course yesterday, and we were taught that we should not go below 100' with our OW card.

From my SSI OWD textbook:
"Nitrogen Narcosis is one of the main reasons it is recomended that recreational divers stay above 100'".

We were also taught that you can get narced above 100' and that your safety is your own personal responsibility, but we were never told that we should stay above 60'. I, personally, plan to stay above 40' until I have quite a few more dives under my belt, but I can see myself diving to 100' before I ever get my AOW.

Just throwing this out there because I have also wondered about this difference in suggested max depths between certifying agencies.

 

[all4scuba05]

To the original poster...The problem is that some divers have no business being that deep while others are capable even with just an OW card. We can't judge you unless we dive with you and talk with you face to face. So I'm afraid that HERE you will get different answers and opinions. Some from idiots and some from "dive gods".

I say, go buy an AOW class book. Read it through. That might give you an idea of what info these guys are saying you need to learn. Then go find a "dive god" and dive with him. I would learn more while diving with him than sitting in class with 8 other students.

I've taken classes. I'm glad I did. But I wish I had more dives with an "expert" early on in my diving.

 

[Diver0001]

so is it okay? for me, a diver with 43 dives,having an 18metre card, to go to 30 metres in a sheltered bay with a skilled diving professional with hundreds of dives who thinks it will be a good experiance for me,and in his words,a confident and serious diver,with good buoyancy skills and a great buddy awarness

I wouldn't feel completely confident saying yes or no having not seen you for myself but based on your description I'd say you sound sorted enough. My question is why would you object to taking continuing-ed courses? If you're a "serious confident" diver then I don't understand your objection.

is it okay for me to do this?? and please dont flame me, im not going to go diving to 30 metres in the morning because of the answer u guys give, im just asking the questions i never did in my open water course and the stuff i didnt remeber from the text

Assuming someone has the skills and experience then I don't think there would be any substantial additional risk in terms of the dive.... one thing you'll need to consider is *IF* you have an accident how is your buddy and/or insurance company going to react? Your buddy may or may not sue you for damages and may argue that diving beyond your training was negligent... Also, your medical insurance may try to argue that since you were diving beyond your training that they shouldn't have to pay for your treatment....

Those are things to consider and although those are not the best reasons to get your AOW or rescue, the reality is that these things need to be accounted for.

R..

 

[PTAaron]

As others have said - it is a question of if you feel confident that you have the skills/experience to make the dive. The "18m rule" is to encourage you to be safe and not take risks you are not skilled/experienced enough to handle. The scuba police aren't going to pull you over, but if you aren't experienced enough to know what to do if something goes wrong at that depth - you may get to see the Coast Guard.

As a brand new certified diver myself I can't see myself going to 30m without a lot more experience with DMs or others willing to mentor me. Going into a cave... no way. Not for me personally!! Not without practice in a "safe" environment with a qualified person.

I was fortunate to meet some GREAT people during my open water dives and they all offered to dive with my wife and I in the future to help us gain confidence/experience.

Anyway - I just wanted to share my feeling on it as a new diver.

 

[scubadude79]

I am not familiar with SSIs training recommendations on max depth, but with PADI it is all about experience level. They do not want you to get into trouble having a lower level cert and making a panic bail out, instead having the additional training and experience you are more likely to think through your problem and not kill yourself.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Inexperienced divers who do not appreciate the need for conservatism while gaining experience are almost certain to become reckless, if not dangerous, divers.

No diver knows how they will react to the unexpected until they have had some experience doing so.

It isn't about PADI wanting to make more money (though like all businesses they certainly do hope to make more money). It is about recognizing that newly minted divers from most short course programs do not have the developed skills to be safe divers in any but the most generous of conditions without significant supervision from more experienced divers.

 

[Wayfarer2]

To the OP
Diving is one of those things in life where being conservative is never a bad idea.

I am not trying to be critical here but based on your questions here and in your Nitrox thread you should probably break out your OW training manual and spend some time reviewing it. Asking questions here is good but you will probably find the answers in your manual more concise. Just because the course is over doesnt mean you cant keep using the manual.

 

[captain]

Back in the days of the 40 hour YMCA course I took in 1970 there was only one certification "scuba diver" and the recommended depth limit was 130 feet. Where did the 130 foot limit come from.
Well it wasn't about safety or experience it was simply that the agencies followed the US Navy's policy that 130 feet was the depth that a reasonable amount of bottom time work could be done with the amount of air in the twin 90 cu/ft tanks they used.
Anything deeper would require surface supplied air to be able to extend bottom time to the length necessary to do the job.

 

[Cave Bum]

hi guys

im a padi open water diver

im just home from a diving trip and i was struck again by the ssi schools attitude to diving deeper than 18metres with an ow card... nearly every dive we done was in the 20-30 metre deep range... ssi it isint this way at all, he said... what other issues are there when we dive below 18 m that we wouldnt have shallower than 18m

thanks guys

I teach PADI and do some universal referals for SSI. Yes, the PADI standards for basic OW is max 60 ft (18.18 metre) and SSi is 100 ft (30.03 metre) in the USA.

The main difference is that most, but not all, divers can do a controlled emergency swimming ascent (CESA) from 60 ft or less. How often is that necessary? I've never talked to a diver who has had to do one (maybe we should do a survey here to see how often it has been required of the general scuba population).

Having said that, I try to teach my students, and hopefully succeed, to prepare them to never have to use that skill. In other words 'use your superior knowledge to avoid situations in which you'd have to use your superior skill'. However, just like running a car out of gas, some people are more likely to do that then others. It's the difference in the way our minds work.

Your certification card, by the way, is just that. A certification that you have been trained to a certain level. IT IS NOT A LICENSE TO DIVE. It's purpose is to show dive venue operators that you have been trained to that level and thereby reduce their liability. There are no scuba police out there, however the fine mother nature sometimes imposes can be far greater then any traffic ticket.

PADI standards are more conservative but SSI standards are well within the bounds of safe practice for an overwhelming majority!

SCUBA is exceedingly safe! It is, however, an alien enviornment that requires life support equipment to stay alive. If you treat it with respect for that fact, and get the proper training, any resonable depth is safe. I have dives to around 300 ft (90 metres), which is within the training I've had.

Go with your gut instinct. Build up slowly to your maximum depth. Learn as you go. In cave diving we stress 'progressive penetration' which means going a little farther each dive as you learn more and more and become more and more comfortable. This is good advice for new divers going to greater depths as well.

Be safe and have fun in the water! Bruce

 

[Pitchblack]

Actually, for marine life, depths greater than 20 meters are pointless. Sure, some species does live a bit deeper and they are few. I can understand if depth has a pupose, wrecks for an example. said by Pitchblack.

I bet you would not make this statement if you have ever dived in PNG.
Plenty of marine life which can ONLY be seen at 30m+, eg hammerheads, Marlin, the biggest fans you could ever photograph just to name a few.

Ofcourse, my bad actually to make that statement. Over here (in Sweden, based on my experience) that is the case.

My bad!

By the way, PNG is ? Looking for vacation destinations for the upcomming winter