Why is PADI so conservative?

[Nemrod]

hi guys

im a padi open water diver

im just home from a diving trip and i was struck again by the ssi schools attitude to diving deeper than 18metres with an ow card

nearly every dive we done was in the 20-30 metre deep range and when i had a chat with a guide from the school about me having an 18 m card and wasnt allowed to go to 30metres he said that with ssi it isint this way at all, he said that the way he done it was to have a check dive then to see the skills of the diver and then make the decision as to what dives they are able to do

whats the differance between diving to 18m and to 30m, is it possible nitrogen narcosis and also not being able to directly ascend on one last breath of air, can someone do this from 18m by the way, it doesnt look to me as if i could do a cesa from that deep, what other issues are there when we dive below 18 m that we wouldnt have shallower than 18m

thanks guys

It isn't conservatism, PadI is a floor planning and merchandising concept that includes a little scuba instruction as the hook to get customers into a retail dive equipment store that usually hard sells equipment at full MSRP. In order to keep selling equipment the concept, almost like a shell game, requires not only expanding the pyramid with new customers but also in order to milk the ones they have already acquired for every red cent PadI offers a "merit badge" program of add-on courses and "advancement" courses to keep the customers coming back to purchase additional training to get them to where they should have been in skill and knowledge to begin with.

In other words, they don't let their OW divers go below 60 feet so they can get them back for the advanced course which them allows them to go to a 100 feet and so on and then maybe they will also pick up a Fish ID course and in the process buy a bunch of tank clackers, tank wraps, Fish ID cards, "Tribal" kit lights, assorted BCs and of course pay for the course materials. Then if they are really good with the shell game they get you to want to be a PadI DM so you do all the grunt work for the retail dive equipment store and buy yet more equipment from them.

These places are not social clubs, they are not your buddies, they are there as profit centers. Quality instruction has never been their real strong point, dive stores are PadI because of the profit motive and the almost franchise like media advertisement they provide for these participating profit centers.

N

 

[H2Andy]

but the bottom line is that any card from any agency, from PADI to GUE, will have limits on what the training you took for that card certifies you to do

certainly you have no beef with NSS-CDS certifying you first to cavern with its limits, then to intro with its limits, then to apprentice, and finally to cave diver?

those restrictions are ultimately arbitrary, put there solely to "slow down" your exposure to more difficult diving situations as your skills catch up

 

[Web Monkey]

hi guys

im a padi open water diver

im just home from a diving trip and i was struck again by the ssi schools attitude to diving deeper than 18metres with an ow card

PADI and SSI have recommended depth limits for divers with OW, AOW and Deep certification cards. The limits are almost identical.

If you're looking for a reason that the limits exist, and why it's a good idea to respect them, take a look at this thread.

Terry

 

[Don Wray]

It isn't conservatism, PadI is a floor planning and merchandising concept that includes a little scuba instruction as the hook to get customers into a retail dive equipment store that usually hard sells equipment at full MSRP. In order to keep selling equipment the concept, almost like a shell game, requires not only expanding the pyramid with new customers but also in order to milk the ones they have already acquired for every red cent PadI offers a "merit badge" program of add-on courses and "advancement" courses to keep the customers coming back to purchase additional training to get them to where they should have been in skill and knowledge to begin with.

In other words, they don't let their OW divers go below 60 feet so they can get them back for the advanced course which them allows them to go to a 100 feet and so on and then maybe they will also pick up a Fish ID course and in the process buy a bunch of tank clackers, tank wraps, Fish ID cards, "Tribal" kit lights, assorted BCs and of course pay for the course materials. Then if they are really good with the shell game they get you to want to be a PadI DM so you do all the grunt work for the retail dive equipment store and buy yet more equipment from them.

These places are not social clubs, they are not your buddies, they are there as profit centers. Quality instruction has never been their real strong point, dive stores are PadI because of the profit motive and the almost franchise like media advertisement they provide for these participating profit centers.

N

Hogwash....there is nothing in the PADI standards regarding a total diving system, wrong agency, that one is a spin off. I don't sell any equipment as a PADI instructor, don't hard sell any specialties and include a lot more than "a little" scuba instruction. Stop broad brushing unless you know what you're talking about.

To the OP, you are certified to dive within the limits in which you are trained or experience. The 60 foot limit is for training dives. You can extend those limits through either instruction or diving with experienced dive buddies.

 

[Web Monkey]

There doesn't seem to be any difference between 60ft and 120ft.

The really interesting part is that while there doesn't seem to be much difference between 60' and 120', on the way from 120' to 60', you can feel the "veil of stupid" being lifted.

It's really hard to tell how narced you are until you aren't anymore.

Terry

 

[H2Andy]

It's really hard to tell how narced you are until you aren't anymore.

and after 100 dives, you are much better able to deal with the effects of narcosis

narcosis is still there, but experience allows you to deal with it much better

otherwise, what's the point of slow exposure and repeated experience? every dive would be like your first one, and we know that's not true

 

[Nemrod]

Hogwash....there is nothing in the PADI standards regarding a total diving system, wrong agency, that one is a spin off. I don't sell any equipment as a PADI instructor, don't hard sell any specialties and include a lot more than "a little" scuba instruction. Stop broad brushing unless you know what you're talking about.

To the OP, you are certified to dive within the limits in which you are trained or experience. The 60 foot limit is for training dives. You can extend those limits through either instruction or diving with experienced dive buddies.

That is your opinion and I respect it, but mine is that it is not conservatism but instead commercialism. YOMV.

N

 

[buleetu]

If you don't know the answer to that question, you shouldn't be diving at all.

well thanks to scubaboard and me asking this question i now know the differance, i dont remember hearing anything about it in my padi open water course, nothing that would tell me not to dive to 30m or if i did what the differance with 18metres deep would be

 

[Steve50]

well thanks to scubaboard and me asking this question i now know the differance, i dont remember hearing anything about it in my padi open water course, nothing that would tell me not to dive to 30m or if i did what the differance with 18m was

Better not count on your memory then,,,, might want to re-read the text or at least sit through another OW class.

 

[buleetu]

or perhaps,as padi would want me to, sit through and pay for advance open water, where i would probably not remember very much of it in 2 years time,but still pass the exam on the day and get my card allowing me to dive to 30metres or what ever that limit is and perhaps dive at night or go into a ship wreck

the thing is,when i done my ow course i done it over 4 days on holiday, i read through the text,i did the confined dives then the open water dives, i copied the instructor when he done the skills and got the handshake when i completled each one, all i wanted to do was get in the water and be cool like all the other divers around me and maybe see a shark, i then find my self popping into the water 2 years later and i have the knowledge and experiance to dive to 18 mtres, but when a guy comes along and does a breifing that tells me were going to go to 30-33metres to try find a coral grouper the lenght of that canoe there and possibly depending on air consumption we will see a cave and we might go in i am very surprised to learn that this is possible at all with my 18m openwater card and of course delighted and a bit scared to say the least

i had another look at my card by the way and there is no mention of 18m on it at all, a previous poster is right about that,

so is it okay? for me, a diver with 43 dives,having an 18metre card, to go to 30 metres in a sheltered bay with a skilled diving professional with hundreds of dives who thinks it will be a good experiance for me,and in his words,a confident and serious diver,with good buoyancy skills and a great buddy awarness

is it okay for me to do this?? and please dont flame me, im not going to go diving to 30 metres in the morning because of the answer u guys give, im just asking the questions i never did in my open water course and the stuff i didnt remeber from the text