Why is Nitrox so expensive (and so hard to get)?

[WetPup]

Funny that this came up. I recently did a day trip out to the Yongala wreck off Townsville/Ayr, which is at 27-30 meters, and ideal for nitrox (I'll write up a trip report later once I've got my photos sorted out). I asked the dive shop about it well enough in advance, and they told me all of their nitrox tanks were on the liveaboard, and they had none left for their day trip boat. I mean seriously, are you kidding me? If you can't offer nitrox on the day trip boat, don't advertise that you can. And on top of that, they wanted $25 per tank of nitrox on top of what they were already charging for the "tanks and weights" price.

I agree that the prices of nitrox and its availability are ridiculous. But I accept that it is what it is. What annoys me is when the LDS tells you or explicitly advertises that they can supply nitrox (regardless of the price) when they can't.

 

[rob1967]

But thats what I don't get. You can't dive deep on Nitrox. It's perfect for recreational stuff...(IMO).
One reason for me never to go over to tech diving

Nitrox is very useful for both recreational and tech diving. Tech divers use oxygen-rich deco gases to accelerate decompression. If you take an advanced nitrox course, you will find out more!

I agree that in an ideal world, Nitrox would be readily available everywhere, and at a reasonable cost. Air is never the ideal mix! Select your nitrox mix based on your planned MOD. If you are going deeper than about 40 m (and properly trained of course), you need to start thinking about adding Helium to your mix and using oxygen-rich deco gases. Helium is very expensive of course which is why IMHO rebreathers are the way to go for Trimix dives.

 

[Heg]

It sort of surprises me, with Australia's general conservativism and risk-averseness regarding diving, that Nitrox isn't virtually universal.

Ditto.

---------- Post added April 5th, 2015 at 08:12 AM ----------

Nitrox is very useful for both recreational and tech diving. Tech divers use oxygen-rich deco gases to accelerate decompression. If you take an advanced nitrox course, you will find out more!
.

Apologies for my ignorance. I just learned something new. But armed with that knowledge, then demand for Nitrox must be high. There are an awful lot of tech divers here in Oz.

---------- Post added April 5th, 2015 at 08:16 AM ----------

Funny that this came up. I recently did a day trip out to the Yongala wreck off Townsville/Ayr, which is at 27-30 meters, and ideal for nitrox (I'll write up a trip report later once I've got my photos sorted out). I asked the dive shop about it well enough in advance, and they told me all of their nitrox tanks were on the liveaboard, and they had none left for their day trip boat. I mean seriously, are you kidding me? If you can't offer nitrox on the day trip boat, don't advertise that you can. And on top of that, they wanted $25 per tank of nitrox on top of what they were already charging for the "tanks and weights" price.

I agree that the prices of nitrox and its availability are ridiculous. But I accept that it is what it is. What annoys me is when the LDS tells you or explicitly advertises that they can supply nitrox (regardless of the price) when they can't.

We dived with Yongala Dive out of Ayr ,back in October last year and it was $15 per tank extra. There were 12 of us and everyone dived on Nitrox

 

[WetPup]

We dived with Yongala Dive out of Ayr ,back in October last year and it was $15 per tank extra. There were 12 of us and everyone dived on Nitrox

I went on the day trip boat out of Townsville. Lesson learned.

 

[BRT]

In order to get every last drop out of an o2 tank, most places use a booster which runs 3-5k and requires drive gas of +/-10CFM. It also takes a lot longer to get the last of the o2 out, sometimes taking the equivalent of 5-7 80cf tanks of air/drive gas. On top of that, the lines need to be o2 cleaned and the top of air needs to be oxygen compatible or it will contaminate the o2 cleaned tanks. If that's not enough, the staff would need to be trained on how to properly use the equipment.

There have been many accidents reported from o2 mishaps. It should be treated with respect and deserves to be charged as a premium product. Competition, supply, and demand hasn't brought the cost down to bring it to the masses in that marketplace

On the other hand I just filled 15 tanks mixing in a stick and ran my O2 tank to empty without a booster or very much danger of an O2 mishap. Mixing nitrox is not rocket surgery and does not cost that much. Three of us dive a few dive trips a year and I mix nitrox. It adds about $2.00/tank for the O2.

 

[MA]

Nitrox is readily available down here in melbourne in, I think, every dive shop I've been too. Prices vary depending on where you fill and the mix, I think I generally pay between 10 and 20. But there would many more easily accessible dives sites here than in brissie. Also a huge tec community down here. So I expect demand would be a lot greater making it viable for the dive shops.

 

[1bubbleoff]

EANx ='s "Geezer gas".....Geezer ='s "Old"..."Old" ='s disposable income...."Disposable income ='s " charge what the suckers will pay..they can afford it!"

Seriously....I love my nitrox, will dive it when it's applicable, but despise being charged thru the nose for an enhanced mix. It is what it is I guess....

Bubs

 

[Peter69_56]

Some calculations I have done as I blend my own Nitrox/O2.
I currently rent a G size medical grade cylinder $270/yr, and the gas costs $170. It contains 10m3 which is 10,000 litres O2. As I don't have a pump I can only use 170 BAR if mixing 32%. That equates to 2 cents/litre purely relating to gas cost, but if you figure in the yearly rental its 5.2 cents/litre (assuming only 1 cylinder of gas/year. If more gas is consumed per year the cost overall drops as the rental is a fixed yearly cost/cylinder).

Thus an 11 litre cylinder @ 200 BAR 32% will require 28 BAR of O2 or 308 litres. 308x0.02=$6.16, with rental costs the actual cost is 308x0.052=$16/cylinder (not including air/filter costs). My top up air is double filtered to ensure sufficient quality (additional cost of a filter plus consumables) so air costs are more than normal scuba grade air costs (I double filter all my air as all my cylinders are oxygen cleaned regardless of proposed oxygen content).

A LDS advertises Nitrox at; Oxygen 3.5 cents/litre ($10.72 for an 11 litre cylinder), $5 for the air, $10 to blend=$25.72. So I consider that there is not as huge margin in it as one might imagine. They are after all a business and must make a profit to survive

I can probably get slightly cheaper rental from another gas company which I will try this in future. I could also use industrial grade oxygen which is cheaper, however given I am playing with my life, I like using medical grade. I believe the actual physical difference is that medical grade, on every occasion the cylinder is evacuated before filling, filled and then tested. Industrial grade its just refilled and not evacuated before filling or tested (except on a random cylinder basis perhaps). I believe the oxygen source is the same for both grades of oxygen. The real difference being that the medical grade is guaranteed to be 100% oxygen and no mixed gases and is certified as such. The industrial grade (while probably 100% oxygen) could potentially have other gases thus the actual gas content is not known or certified but only assumed to be 100% oxygen.

With relation to using a compressor for nitrox blending, yes its done all over the world, however the risk being that it has the potential to promote combustion within the compressor during fills (high oxygen, fuel [oil], temperature [from the compressing process]), and it also increases wear on the compressor (which I picked up from my Dive Technician course). A compressor in poor condition promotes oil combustion within the cylinder, thus just another risk we must consider before going down this path.

So one might ask, why do I do it? Why not just go and get a fill from my LDS;
Well convenience is one, I use varying mixes from 21-100%.
I know what gas is used to fill my cylinders as I do all my own fills. Thus no contamination from suspect air sources.
I get correct fills every time and no short fills.
I inspect, test, clean my own tanks thus save in these costs as well.
I like having hands on so I understand the process fully, thus can often see when others are not providing as good a service as they should.

I would love a Haskel booster pump so I can use all the oxygen from my cylinders but they are in the order of $2500+ and my minister for finance has drawn a line in the sand (although I sneaked a nice new Bauer compressor past her last year).

---------- Post added April 5th, 2015 at 01:45 PM ----------

An interesting link; Oxygen Labels

 

[WetPup]

While I understand your cost analysis, remember that they're already charging you $20/tank for air. And then demanding an extra $25 on top of that for nitrox. So you're paying $45 for a single tank of nitrox, not $25. I lived in Perth for a number of years and could get a tank of nitrox for $16. So I don't know what these guys here are doing that triples their costs. Although given that I could get my regs serviced in Perth for $110 and here it's $240, I suspect it's just pure price gouging.

 

[Peter69_56]

While I understand your cost analysis, remember that they're already charging you $20/tank for air. And then demanding an extra $25 on top of that for nitrox. So you're paying $45 for a single tank of nitrox, not $25. I lived in Perth for a number of years and could get a tank of nitrox for $16. So I don't know what these guys here are doing that triples their costs. Although given that I could get my regs serviced in Perth for $110 and here it's $240, I suspect it's just pure price gouging.

Yes you are right, I was assuming you are just buying Nx for a dive, and not including a dive with it "with air". In that case its quite expensive.

On that point its interesting that if you book a dive its X amount, and often, if you bring your own tanks, there is no discount for using your own air (although often air is extra, depending on the deal)

I also dislike those who price gouge, and often these same businesses, provide premium price combined with poor service, to boot.