Why don't most brands sell service parts?

[Eric Sedletzky]

@agilis is correct. The law is intended for companies like Apple who forced you to go to an Apple store for repairs. No one else could get parts. Companies like SP and others provide parts to hundreds of dealers who will service and repair your gear. Is it kinda monopolistic? I guess so. Does anyone else complain besides a handful of people on SB? Nah.

I worked at a store. If we knew and trusted you, parts kits were sold to you. Never an issue. You might even get some work on the side too.

I’m almost to that point with my LDS.
They even asked me if I wanted a job one day a week to come in and service regs for them. I’m half way tempted to take them up on it even though the pay would be low, it might be worth it since I would have access to parts for my own stuff.

 

[LandonL]

Again…. All this raises the question of why try to move a mountain to force a company to sell you parts? Why try to compel them to do something they don’t want to?

It seems the better solution is to buy quality gear from a manufacturer who does want to help you (us at Deep6), and from the guy who literally started the concept of allowing parts access (@cerich).

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Again…. All this raises the question of why try to move a mountain to force a company to sell you parts? Why try to compel them to do something they don’t want to?

It seems the better solution is to buy quality gear from a manufacturer who does want to help you (us at Deep6), and from the guy who literally started the concept of allowing parts access (@cerich).

I guess it’s the challenge of obtaining something you’re not supposed to have?
Being rebellious.
As soon as they say no, someone will fight it.

 

[kelemvor]

Again…. All this raises the question of why try to move a mountain to force a company to sell you parts? Why try to compel them to do something they don’t want to?

A couple of examples that I've personally experienced with my Scubapro S600/MK25 sets:
1. I bought the regulators with a written lifetime warranty and free service parts. Scubapro decided to change their policy and just ignore those of us who bought a product that included the warranty. It's a pretty clear violation of magnisun-moss I would think.
2. Since the free parts was voided by scubapro, I tried to buy a service kit that should have been free and DIY. I was not able to do that in the US, several shops quoted a scubapro policy that only authorized service centers can buy scubapro parts and they supposedly not allowed to resell them to me. I had to order them from outside the country.
3. Since I did the service myself, and made the mistake of mentioning it while in a shop when dropping off a bunch of stuff post-covid to make sure all my gear that had sat for over a year was good to go... the shop told me my warranty was completely void. Also a explicitly prohibited in magnisun-moss.

If you search back on old posts from me, you'll find some when I first got certified and was deciding what brand regulators to get. The free parts and lifetime warranty was the main reason I purchased Scubapro regulators in the first place. It's also good gear, but if that had not been a factor I may have decided to buy a different brand. Deep6 would be a good choice today, but they didn't exist at the time. I think I was considering Aqua-Lung, Poseidon, and Scubapro at the time.

While Scubapro is probably the most egregious violator of magnisun-moss in scuba, I'm sure there are other companies refusing to sell parts to end users or voiding warranties for properly performed diy service or service performed by a non "authorized" technician.

I've filed an complaint about my problem with the FTC since I don't have the cash to lawyer up and defend my rights on the issue. Perhaps if others do the same, the FTC will do the lawyering up in our stead.

 

[tridacna]

A couple of examples that I've personally experienced with my Scubapro S600/MK25 sets:
1. I bought the regulators with a written lifetime warranty and free service parts. Scubapro decided to change their policy and just ignore those of us who bought a product that included the warranty. It's a pretty clear violation of magnisun-moss I would think.
2. Since the free parts was voided by scubapro, I tried to buy a service kit that should have been free and DIY. I was not able to do that in the US, several shops quoted a scubapro policy that only authorized service centers can buy scubapro parts and they supposedly not allowed to resell them to me. I had to order them from outside the country.
3. Since I did the service myself, and made the mistake of mentioning it while in a shop when dropping off a bunch of stuff post-covid to make sure all my gear that had sat for over a year was good to go... the shop told me my warranty was completely void. Also a explicitly prohibited in magnisun-moss.

If you search back on old posts from me, you'll find some when I first got certified and was deciding what brand regulators to get. The free parts and lifetime warranty was the main reason I purchased Scubapro regulators in the first place. It's also good gear, but if that had not been a factor I may have decided to buy a different brand. Deep6 would be a good choice today, but they didn't exist at the time. I think I was considering Aqua-Lung, Poseidon, and Scubapro at the time.

While Scubapro is probably the most egregious violator of magnisun-moss in scuba, I'm sure there are other companies refusing to sell parts to end users or voiding warranties for properly performed diy service or service performed by a non "authorized" technician.

I've filed an complaint about my problem with the FTC since I don't have the cash to lawyer up and defend my rights on the issue. Perhaps if others do the same, the FTC will do the lawyering up in our stead.

Do you still have the original warranty and your receipt? If true, may be a good class action. Can you post the warranty?

 

[MrVegas]

Again…. All this raises the question of why try to move a mountain to force a company to sell you parts? Why try to compel them to do something they don’t want to?

It seems the better solution is to buy quality gear from a manufacturer who does want to help you (us at Deep6), and from the guy who literally started the concept of allowing parts access (@cerich).

This is a great point. Not something your average first-time regulator buyer is thinking about, though. Price and fear over brand reputation are probably the two biggest factors. If I need more regulators in the future, I would absolutely buy from someone that has a more "open" model for parts and service.

 

[kelemvor]

@agilis is correct. The law is intended for companies like Apple who forced you to go to an Apple store for repairs. No one else could get parts. Companies like SP and others provide parts to hundreds of dealers who will service and repair your gear. Is it kinda monopolistic? I guess so. Does anyone else complain besides a handful of people on SB? Nah.

I worked at a store. If we knew and trusted you, parts kits were sold to you. Never an issue. You might even get some work on the side too.

It's true that it focuses on consumer electronics (dive computers, transmitters, scooters should be covered already). That's because when it was being lobbied for, the people working on a similar right to repair law in farming (mainly focusing on John Deere) contacted the people working on the consumer electronics issue and asked the electronics people to exclude farming because the farmers wanted their own law. Something about the farmers thinking an all-encompassing law wouldn't meet their needs. I only heard about that second hand, so I don't know exactly how that went down.

So now we have one passed law on electronics right to repair. One passed law on wheelchair and other medical equipment right to repair, and 6 or 7 others currently working their way through the legislation process. While the US president (of whom I'm not otherwise a fan, but that's off-topic) has ordered the FTC to address the problem, I am not sure there's any federal legislation on the issue currently in progress.

I think the intent is pretty clear. People should have access to the tools and parts needed to fix thier own stuff. People should be able to get their stuff fixed by whoever they want - including Bob the shade-tree regulator tech or Leeroy the guy who fixes broken dive computers and iphones in his basement. Doing so cannot void a warranty (that's already a law) unless the person doing the work causes damage AND that damage can be proven to have caused the next failure where an item is in for warranty repair. The onus is explicitly on the manufacturer to prove that in the current law, by the way.

Simply put, the old law requires manufacturers to honor warranties they issued and simultaneously prevent manufacturers from locking you in to buying parts or hiring service from anyone in particular.

The new laws are intended to go a step further and require manufacturers to make parts available to anyone who wants to buy them. It also was intended to require companies to provide service manuals (schematics, specifically) without regard to any warranty. Also, third parties should be able to produce and sell aftermarket parts for a product - exactly as the situation in the auto industry.

In the case of iProducts, there are already third parties producing and selling schematics to be used in repair. It's kind of like a chilton's service manual for a phone instead of a car.

 

[kelemvor]

Do you still have the original warranty and your receipt? If true, may be a good class action. Can you post the warranty?

I do. It's in my attic. I kept the packaging (with paperwork inside). That will have to wait a couple months because I ain't going up there anytime soon on account of the recent heat. Maybe in November.

I hope it doesn't go to class status. Every time I've been a part of a class action, I've ended up with a check for a few cents or maybe 2 or 3 dollars for whatever the issue happened to be. They're a good paycheck for the attorneys on both sides, as I understand things. An embarrassment and expense for the company involved, I'm sure. I'm unconvinced that they really achieve making plaintiffs whole. I also don't think they achieve forcing companies to change their ways.

I'd rather see legislation and enforcement by a government agency...and if necessary (and affordable), individual lawsuits.

 

[tridacna]

I do. It's in my attic. I kept the packaging (with paperwork inside). That will have to wait a couple months because I ain't going up there anytime soon on account of the recent heat. Maybe in November.

I hope it doesn't go to class status. Every time I've been a part of a class action, I've ended up with a check for a few cents or maybe 2 or 3 dollars for whatever the issue happened to be. They're a good paycheck for the attorneys on both sides, as I understand things. An embarrassment and expense for the company involved, I'm sure. I'm unconvinced that they really achieve making plaintiffs whole. I also don't think they achieve forcing companies to change their ways.

I'd rather see legislation and enforcement by a government agency...and if necessary (and affordable), individual lawsuits.

Hint: In a class action, try and be the lead litigant. That’s who makes the real money. (And the attorneys of course!). Dig up the warranty when you can.

 

[tridacna]

This is all a storm in a tea cup. Number of consumers who really care about this are teensy weensy.