Why do you penetrate wrecks?

[skampbel]

Well, Steve, that stuff just doesn't turn my crank. Never has.....

Some of the guys I dive with go in and hack that stuff off and take it home to add to their ...(*cough*junk*cough)...collection. What excites me about wrecks are the history and the stories.

R..

As a nautical archaeologist it always alarms me to hear of people looting wrecks. It is not only illegal, but unethical. Divers should be aware that those wrecks should not be damaged any more than reefs should be damaged. A lot can be learned about these ships when they can be studied in a pristine state, after divers who have no idea what they are doing are done hacking the ship to pieces all we can do is add the wreck to the already too long list of looted history. In addition, if everyone takes a piece, then there is nothing left to see. Take pictures, keep memories, don't take "treasure"

 

[Diver0001]

As a nautical archaeologist it always alarms me to hear of people looting wrecks. It is not only illegal, but unethical. Divers should be aware that those wrecks should not be damaged any more than reefs should be damaged. A lot can be learned about these ships when they can be studied in a pristine state, after divers who have no idea what they are doing are done hacking the ship to pieces all we can do is add the wreck to the already too long list of looted history. In addition, if everyone takes a piece, then there is nothing left to see. Take pictures, keep memories, don't take "treasure"

This is an age long debate. The laws regarding removing objects from wrecks vary from place to place. It's always controversial but not always illegal. On the North Sea many of the wrecks are subjected to considerable punishment (more punishment than a few divers can give them) by the sea conditions. I've seen a wreck literally get rolled over and twisted and broken apart by the undermining action of the currents moving sand out from under one side of the wreck. One year it was standing on it's keel and the next year only the bow was standing up and the stern had been broken off and rolled over. I've seen another get "blown" to bits in a force 10 storm. The entire bridge was ripped off and deposited beside the boat..... The season after that the deck caved in. Many also have bits cut off or stamped down and pushed around by people trying to keep the seaways free of obstacles. All of this is to say that the whole idea of a pristine wreck thta is like a never changing moment of frozen time isn't really realistic. Wrecks disintegrate without any help.

I think if a wreck has an archaeological value then it should be left alone until it is studied but many wrecks aren't interesting for archaeologists and basically amount to heaps of junk on the bottom of the sea and I don't personally see anything unethical about picking up bits of junk if that's what floats your boat....

R..

 

[Lil' Irish Temper]

It always makes me laugh when someone says "everyone takes a piece, then there is nothing left to see"

Water + Metal ship = Pile of rust.

How are you saving history by letting it rot away?

Artifacts are better off being owned by people who will treasure them not by being warehoused.

 

[Kim]

Artifacts are better off being owned by people who will treasure them not by being warehoused.

Not to mention the many museums that exist for the artifact collections that divers have gathered.

 

[zboss]

I finally "got it" this past weekend. I was diving in North Carolina and my buddy and I came across a hatch with a ladder going down... my first reponse was "I wonder what's down there, I wonder where that goes" and I was like "wow - I wish I had my reel" and ""NOWWWWW I get it".

Fortunately (or unfortunately as timing would have it) the wreck was purposely sunk in the "Wrecks to Reefs" program and had been cleared of obstructions beforehand - making it perfect for penetration if it had been planned.

 

[Rick Murchison]

As a nautical archaeologist it always alarms me to hear of people looting wrecks. It is not only illegal, but unethical. Divers should be aware that those wrecks should not be damaged any more than reefs should be damaged.

"Looting?" "Illegal?" Not hardly. You need to review your admiralty law.
"Unethical?" I'll tell you what's unethical - academics who sit in their ivory towers and demand that we peons keep their hands off "their" domain because "only they" can treat these "valuable artifacts" with the "proper respect" - while those artifacts merrily rust away to nothing. That's not only unethical, it's a cryin' shame.
The damage to wrecks in salt water is ongoing; one good hurricane can destroy a wreck overnight. Artifacts are either saved by someone, or lost to Neptune. Those who'd rather see a wreck turn to a pile of rust than to allow the "unqualified" to "loot" the treasure have their priorities turned upside down.
Rick

 

[mstroeck]

I agree with Rick. The idea of preserving steel wrecks for posterity is rather weird. Steel simply doesn't hold up long enough in salt water to even become interesting to most archeologists. I'd rather have wreck divers salvaging what they can from the wrecks of the world than wait for the handful of actual marine archeologists to do it.

Some wrecks might be more historically important than others, but they all share the same fate. Sooner or later, any wreck will be just a pile of junk, of no use to anybody. I don't see what mankind would have gained from leaving untouched the mountains of china and other "treasures" that went down with the Andrea Doria. That's one wreck that will almost certainly be gone pretty soon.

I've heard people say that "looting" wrecks is like breaking of stalactites in caves, but that's nonsense. Dripstones and caves took thousands of generations to form and will be here for many thousands more. The window of opportunity to appreciate a wreck is much, much shorter...

Now, if we we are talking about a wreck that went down with a hundred people on board, I understand that some people have reservations. Personally, I couldn't care less what people do with my watch after I'm 50 years dead on the sea-floor, but not everybody thinks that way...

 

[Scubagolf]

Just a question for curiosity sake.

Given the risks involved in wreck penetration it makes me wonder what motivates people to start with it. I'm not talking about swim-throughs, but real laying-line type penetrations.

So.....what's your motivation?

R..

Read this: "Shadow Divers," the story of the discovery of the German submarine "U-Who" by John Chatterton. http://www.divenow.nl/shadow_divers.htm

 

[aue-mike]

As a nautical archaeologist it always alarms me to hear of people looting wrecks. It is not only illegal, but unethical.

In many instances, your above statement is slander. In many cases it is not illegal. And as far as ethics -- that is your opinion.

As a nautical archaeologist, you should also acknowledge you have an agenda, and by eliminating "competition" it opens up avenues for those in your profession.

 

[aue-mike]

Not to mention the many museums that exist for the artifact collections that divers have gathered.

Most museums only display a very, very small percentage of artifacts in their possession. Most of their collections are boxed up and stashed away. In many cases, curation of artifacts is very poor, and many agencies do not have catalogues or proper care for material in their possession. Many articles have been written about this curation crisis. Refer to the following article:
http://www.cr.nps.gov/aad/cg/fd_vol7_num4/crisis.htm
The GAO published a very disturbing study on this. So, before you start slamming wreck divers, one should look at the very institutions many hold in such high regard and get a taste of reality.