Why Do People Do This?

[ianr33]

Dive deep cold water in single tanks?

Seems to have been several threads recently involving freeflows at depth in cold water.

e.g. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/235366-dive-goes-bad-fast.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...rned/244651-100-free-flow-135ft-41f-water.htm
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/188156-problem-gilboa-4-21-a.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/near-misses-lessons-learned/156060-freeflow-140-a.html

Posters often seem surprised that such a thing could happen to them.
I dont dive cold water so I may not know what I am talking about, but it seems to me that when diving cold and deep a freeflow is not exactly unexpected. Especially with rental gear and poor technique (e.g. breathing reg on surface)

So why do divers insist on rolling the dice in this way ? Lack of training? Lack of planning? Darwin candidates?

With appropriate gear a freeflow is an inconvenience.Nothing more. On a single tank with new/unskilled divers it can all too easily be fatal.

I would no more do a 135 foot dive in 41 degree water on a single tank than I would enter a cave without a line.

Am I missing something here?

 

[chilie]

As a midwest cold water diver you must plan for the worst case scenario-if that includes doing a breathing off a free flowing reg from 35 feet in 55 degree water or if that involves diving doubles and slinging a 40 going to 130 in 40 degree water. It is a known risk that water cooler than 50 degrees can do funny things to first and second stages despite any cold water treatment or enviromental seals. If you want to go deep dark and cold, you better train for it and expect to have to deal with a free flowing reg.

 

[scubadiver888]

I didn't read the posts you referenced but I'm always willing to give people the benefit of the doubt. My first thought would be they didn't know better. My second thought might be they didn't know how cold the water was or it was fine until they dropped below a thermocline.

I dive cold water but for now cold means 60F. At some point I'll start diving colder. There is nothing to stop me from diving the lake in May or November when it will be 40F. The fact that I read articles here is what will save my butt. My PADI manuals don't prepare me to avoid this sort of stuff. I'm dumb and I know it. I'm working at being smarter. A lot of guys I met and dumb and don't know it.

In some cases ignorance is bliss. At 90' with an AL80 in 40F water and a free flowing regulator, ignorance is not bliss.

Today I read the ACUC Ice Diver manual. They have a section on this and even point out that if you run out of air and have to buddy breath there is a strong chance your buddy's reg is going to free flow too. Maybe there should be something between Open Water and Ice Diver. If I ever become an instructor, I'll remember to teach my students this sort of stuff (or at least hint that they need to learn it before diving cold water).

 

[TSandM]

I think a lot of people learn to dive, and then they go and do some diving and it's really pretty simple. I think all of us would agree that, absent extreme conditions (depth, dark, severely limited viz, high current, etc.) diving is pretty darned easy. If you have a whole sequence of uneventful, easy dives, I think it's easy to start thinking you've got the whole thing sussed.

It isn't by the easy dives that we grow as divers. It's by the ones that go sideways and push our limits that we learn. And hopefully don't get hurt in the process.

 

[Web Monkey]

Dive deep cold water in single tanks?

Seems to have been several threads recently involving freeflows at depth in cold water.

You've got me. Considering the lack of fatalities, all I can figure is that a lot of people should be buying lottery tickets.

I can't even imagine doing that 137' dive from the other thread without the right equipment. I've been on that wreck and it's a deep, dark, cold, unforgiving place.

Even a little mistake (or no mistake at all) will take you right on to whatever comes after this life.

Terry

 

[drbill]

Just a guess... they live in cold climates, but learn to dive for vacations in warm water. They buy gear for such conditions. Then they try to expand their diving by doing local dives with equipment that isn't really suited to the conditions? I don't dive anything below 48 F... until I get to Antarctica (and even there I may decide to dive the "hot" springs).

 

[Ber Rabbit]

Posters often seem surprised that such a thing could happen to them.
I dont dive cold water so I may not know what I am talking about, but it seems to me that when diving cold and deep a freeflow is not exactly unexpected. Especially with rental gear and poor technique (e.g. breathing reg on surface)

So why do divers insist on rolling the dice in this way ? Lack of training? Lack of planning? Darwin candidates?

With appropriate gear a freeflow is an inconvenience.Nothing more. On a single tank with new/unskilled divers it can all too easily be fatal.

I guess the reason depends on the diver. My husband has an interesting take on some of this having been certified and doing these cold dives since the late 70's. His quote to me was "Comfortable divers don't free-flow their regs." I don't know if they had the occasional free flow back in the day but they were doing 100 foot dives in cold water. They specifically trained for those dives going progressively deeper on training dives and making sure to get the run times perfect. You timed your dive with a watch and someone on the surface timed it as well, if you were not at your safety stop within 60 seconds of the time you should be they dropped the standby rescue divers in the water. Not a lot of groups dive like that any more.

I was chastised by a fellow instructor one day at Gilboa. We were sitting at the picnic table and a diver from another group came over and said, "My buddy wants to dive the deep side but my other buddy and I are not sure if it's a good idea." I said, "How many dives do you have?" He told me the buddy wanting to go on the deep side had 9 dives, his buddy had 7 and he had 6. I simply said, "You're going to die." My fellow instructor interrupted to explain the qualifications and procedures needed to dive that part of the quarry as well as the dangers (I was getting there). We offered to change our dive plan and take them to the tubes at 60 feet. The diver asking the question was relieved and grateful. When he walked away my friend asked why I told him he would die, that's something their shop would never let them say because diving really is as safe as bowling. Personally if I'm about to do something that's going to get me killed I would appreciate it if someone told me.

Well, we went on the dive with them to 60 feet. They violated their dive plan by 10 feet and were standing on the bottom like they were waiting on a bus. We never did see them ask each other how much air they had either. We debriefed them on their dive skills afterward and gave them some things to work on.

I pointed out to my instructor buddy that I was right, the odds of them coming back alive from the dive they were originally planning to do were very slim and he agreed.

So was it lack of training, lack of planning or Darwinism in action?

Diving is supposed to be fun! It's safe! That's the company line. You don't have to be quite so blunt to let people know about the dangers. A student who happened to have gone to school with the girlfriend of the deceased sent me an email after the accident at Gilboa trying to make sense of it. One thing she said really struck me, "You told us about the bad things that could happen when diving but until this happened I don't think any of us actually believed it could happen to us."

Maybe its just a societal thing, it always happens to the other guy...we don't stop and think that to everyone else WE ARE "the other guy".

People, please. Get the training, get the equipment and get the experience. Cold deep diving can be rewarding and fun but one thing it's not is forgiving of mistakes when things start to go wrong.
Ber :lilbunny:

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I tell my students all the time that this is fun, exciting, relaxing, and safe all the time as long as you Dive within your training and experience. Go outside of that and it can hurt or kill you in a heartbeat. Just finished the physiology lecture Tues night. By the time we were done they had a healthy respect for what can happen. Especially if you get stupid.

 

[Pearldiver07]

I think a lot of people learn to dive, and then they go and do some diving and it's really pretty simple. I think all of us would agree that, absent extreme conditions (depth, dark, severely limited viz, high current, etc.) diving is pretty darned easy. If you have a whole sequence of uneventful, easy dives, I think it's easy to start thinking you've got the whole thing sussed.

It isn't by the easy dives that we grow as divers. It's by the ones that go sideways and push our limits that we learn. And hopefully don't get hurt in the process.

Amen!

 

[DeNomad]

Just a guess... they live in cold climates, but learn to dive for vacations in warm water. They buy gear for such conditions. Then they try to expand their diving by doing local dives with equipment that isn't really suited to the conditions? I don't dive anything below 48 F... until I get to Antarctica (and even there I may decide to dive the "hot" springs).

Dr. Bill has hit the nail on the head there. Not everyone is fortunate enough to live in warm climates. You all would be quite thrilled to know there is probably 50+ divers a week certified in Edmonton in 42-50 degree water diving single aluminum 80's.

People have to start somewhere, and I still dive singles. But then again I stay close to my buddy, and have dealt with a buddy's free flowing reg. It wasn't that big of a deal. There is good emphasis on diving in cold water in classes up here as well, since that is the local diving.