Why do I need a Nitrox certification?

[Slamfire]

The reality is that a certification is required to dive Nitrox.

Really? I wonder why then I can go buy a 333 cu ft cylinder of O₂ and never have to show any scuba related plastic cards? So far there haven't been any mysterious mystical forces preventing me from decanting some O₂ into my dive tanks and then topping them up with air to make whatever mix I wish to do. Dive boats don't prevent my home brewed nitrox tanks from getting on board. Maybe I live in a different universe. If I have a chemistry degree do I need to have have a kid that only finished high school teach me about Daltons Law? Would said kid understand PV=nRT better than I do? How about (P+n²a/V²)(V-nb)=nRT?

Your post just screams "you're gonna die!!!". And you chastise readers into going through the traditional scuba industry to get their "talisman vaccine" that will save their lives. The fact is that the real life saver is knowledge and traditional scuba industry, IMO, does a less than complete job at imparting knowledge, at least at the basic nitrox course levels. There are so many more complete and better sources of physiological knowledge than to just go to your local LDS and pay $150 for a plastic card.

The certification is designed to keep people safe by educating them about the use of various O2 mixes, which BTW can kill you at depth. So you can die breathing pure O2 at 25', that is worth a class, no?

Do you know how much time will an average human being have to be breathing pure O2 at 25' before he dies? I may sound like the viper in the garden of eden, but it is a fallacy that you will certainly die as soon as you cross the 1.6 ppO2 line. I realize you're not saying this, but when you say "you're gonna die", I have to ask "how long before I die under those conditions". And the truth is that not NOAA nor Bill Hamilton will have a definitive answer. So they did their best to try to keep you on the safer side of the risk continuum.

I have been diving a while and have always had to show my Nitrox cert even when the shop knows me. Its a policy that all fill stations should have.

Zealot scuba police attitudes like these are the reason why I invested a lot of effort into being as much LDS independent as possible. I feel so blessed to live in a province where this zealot thinking has not infected real laws and I am FREE to dive however and with whatever I feel like.

---------- Post added April 27th, 2012 at 04:43 PM ----------

I wonder if building my own analyzer qualifies me to analyze my own gas without a nitrox card...

BTW, I do have nitrox cards from biggest scuba training agency in the world as well as the biggest scuba tech agency in the world, so don't get all flustered.

One of the best hands on lab classes I took when I was a senior in college involved very little interaction with my teacher. The teacher said here's a 286 computer, here are some servos, cables, here's a book about programming in QBASIC, there's a digital pH meter, now build an automatic titrator by then end of the semester. A structured, pre-digested, dumbed down, and incomplete learning path is not the only way to gather knowledge. As much as they would like to, the scuba industry does not hold an exclusively monopoly on all scuba related knowledge.

 

[PfcAJ]

You must be real smart. Its a good thing everyone else is as smart as you too...

 

[ianr33]

Why does anyone worry about oxygen toxicity diving 32% on NDL dives at a pO2 < 1.4??

 

[TSandM]

Really? I wonder why then I can go buy a 333 cu ft cylinder of O​

₂

and never have to show any scuba related plastic cards? So far there haven't been any mysterious mystical forces preventing me from decanting some O​

₂

into my dive tanks and then topping them up with air to make whatever mix I wish to do. Dive boats don't prevent my home brewed nitrox tanks from getting on board. Maybe I live in a different universe. If I have a chemistry degree do I need to have have a kid that only finished high school teach me about Daltons Law? Would said kid understand PV=nRT better than I do? How about (P+n​

²

a/V​

²

)(V-nb)=nRT?​

This reminds me of a hysterical story a friend told at dinner one night, having to do with someone asking him what his technical certification level was. His answer? "What cert? Hell, I've got a PraxAir account!"

 

[jm]

Flamers need not reply. Where I live the LDS's do not question anyone for c cards or Nitrox fills ever. I have a dive computer and use it. I have been using Nitrox for a couple years now and am just wondering why one would want/ need to get certified for reasons other than getting fills why on vacation and what not. Anything I am missing on this? Why is the certification a supposed requirment. In my experience I have only been asked for Nitrox cert proof when in very touristy areas.
I understand it's cheap to get the cert and all, but what valuable knowledge will a avid OW diver that never plans to do any type of technical diving gain from it?
Thanks in advance.

Rather than debate the value or usefulness of the Nitrox card the best answer that I can come up with is that it is currently the accepted standard. It provides proof to the dive shop that you have received training in the use and potential problems with nitrox. The card does not guarantee that you won't abuse nitrox or do something that will get you hurt but at least you would understand the risks involved and how to reduce them. It also is not an ironclad guarantee that you had a quality course with an outstanding instructor but is definitely better than nothing at all. Come to think of it, this pretty much applies to C- cards in general. The whole certification card system may not be perfect but it does require you to learn the basics. For instance, there is quite a bit of information available in regards to nitrox that you can get without taking a course, such as the NOAA Diving Manual. Unfortunately, you have not read it and are not required to do so to get nitrox fills. You have thus illustrated the value of getting the card, as you would have to obtain the information first prior to using it. As you can read from the other posts there is a bit more to think about diving nitrox than you may have realized.

Here is a question for you to think about. How will you handle it when you go to the shop one day and a different person asks you for the Nitrox card? Will you honestly reply you don't have the card or will you create a scene because you have been denied something you have previously been allowed? Shops change employees and even sometimes change owners. The next person may be a bit more cautious or worried about potential liability. You may have already opened the can of worms by posting in a public forum what the shop was doing. The might just have been unaware you don't have the training and trusted that you did.

 

[Slamfire]

You must be real smart. Its a good thing everyone else is as smart as you too...

Yes, AJ, I might be too full of myself, but let me ask you this: Is cave diving for everybody? For that matter, is plain scuba diving for everybody? I think you'll agree that there are some people that should not do any form of diving.

Another question: What is your most valuable asset when you are diving? It's not your dpv, nor your regs, nor any other equipment. I would venture to say that it is not even your knowledge (IMO that would your 2nd most valuable asset). I think your most valuable asset is your brains. Your ability to solve unforeseen problems that you may not have any knowledge about.

I think you would agree, given the attention and care you pay to protecting and keeping a clear head while diving. Otherwise, why would you have that avatar?

I'm not saying that you have to have a college degree before you dive. I'm not even saying that regular scuba industry training is worthless. It is not. What I am saying is that the way of the traditional scuba industry is not the only way, and in some cases, the traditional scuba way is not the best way. What ticks me off is that the traditional scuba industry wants to make you believe it is the only way. "...

a certification is required to dive Nitrox." They would love to have you as a captive customer that has no other choice but to go through them.​

 

[jmneill]

This is not one dive shop, it is two LDS's as well as the one aforementioned in the panhandle. This is what leads me to believe this mat not be the death potion it is being cast as by the vast majority of responses I am seeing here. (many being more belligerent than informative) I have the basics, and so far no one person has really posted anything that would in any way lead to a problem for me. (which is the one and only reason for the thread)
Side note, it was mentioned that it was likely the irresponsible act of an employee that would soon be fired for doing such things, when in fact the both the LDS's in question are family owned and operated and in both cases the fills have been done by the owner and his/her immediate family. Not some rogue employee. Same thing in the panhandle.

Rather than debate the value or usefulness of the Nitrox card the best answer that I can come up with is that it is currently the accepted standard. It provides proof to the dive shop that you have received training in the use and potential problems with nitrox. The card does not guarantee that you won't abuse nitrox or do something that will get you hurt but at least you would understand the risks involved and how to reduce them. It also is not an ironclad guarantee that you had a quality course with an outstanding instructor but is definitely better than nothing at all. Come to think of it, this pretty much applies to C- cards in general. The whole certification card system may not be perfect but it does require you to learn the basics. For instance, there is quite a bit of information available in regards to nitrox that you can get without taking a course, such as the NOAA Diving Manual. Unfortunately, you have not read it and are not required to do so to get nitrox fills. You have thus illustrated the value of getting the card, as you would have to obtain the information first prior to using it. As you can read from the other posts there is a bit more to think about diving nitrox than you may have realized.

Here is a question for you to think about. How will you handle it when you go to the shop one day and a different person asks you for the Nitrox card? Will you honestly reply you don't have the card or will you create a scene because you have been denied something you have previously been allowed? Shops change employees and even sometimes change owners. The next person may be a bit more cautious or worried about potential liability. You may have already opened the can of worms by posting in a public forum what the shop was doing. The might just have been unaware you don't have the training and trusted that you did.

 

[BrotherBear]

I was hoping for responses that would be more specific of any realistic danger to me. I understand the basic depth limitations and such. The only mix I use is 32% and as a personal rule I never dive past 110 Ft. I have not studied it closely, but with the aforementioned what specific danger am I putting myself in over air? Also, as a side note, I would put myself in the conservative diver catagory believe it or not.

I'm a little rummy after three straight night shifts, but is there anything here that says that the OP hasn't read somebody's Nitrox manual? As Thal says, Nitrox is pure book-learning, except for how to use an analyzer. I don't think there IS any reason for someone to get the cert, if they have read the manual, unless they need it for fills or charters. I think it's a good idea to know a little more about what Nitrox is, what it does, and what the risks are, than just what your computer tells you, but if someone has done their homework, I don't think there is a great deal that an instructor is going to add to a Nitrox class, unless they bring in topics which are not customarily part of the class (as my husband does with his).

IMHO advocating learning Nitrox procedures without the help of instructors ignores one basic fact of life. Not all divers know enough math (let alone algebra) to grasp what that 2 sided sheet of paper is telling them. I recently helped someone through the basic math who couldn't get the calculations right to save his life (irony intended) but he thought he was doing ok. Activities that present a potential health/fatality risk and are more complex than "do this, don't do that" are worth the price of a double check and correction.

Some folks will probably do just fine on their own IF they have a good grasp of math and basic algebra doesn't scare them...but I would say that a great many more look at a formula on a piece of paper and their eyes just sort of glaze over, these folks may well be risking their lives by not consulting a professional. Who are we to say which is which?

 

[FuzzyNutz]

I'm certified to use nitrox and I occasionally use it. After reading this thread, I think I might read my book again :shocked2:

 

[Bombay High]

Add to that the fact that PADI and DAN were four-square against EAN at the start and you'll see why the industry had both face-saving and economic reasons to make sure that nitrox was a separately priced product.

... and everyone in the rec community was against Helium when we were using it. Guinea pigs breathing Voodoo gas comes to mind ;-)