Why do I need a Nitrox certification?

[RTee]

.. I know which way I am leaning at this point.....

jmneil...probably the same way you were leaning even before typing the first letter of your original post.

 

[Rogersea]

Andy -- THANK YOU for a great laugh.

OuterReef -- And just where do you think I had my tongue when I wrote about my "30 Second Nitrox Class?" (NOT a Three Minute one -- that's just for the very slow learners.)

In fact, as a PADI Instructor, I teach my 30 Second Nitrox Class through PADI -- I then spend another 6 hours going over other stuff to fill out the time -- but it's just like kindergarten -- that's all they ever need to learn!

Peter,
I dont agree with you. but, I understand your position.

I am not the most experienced instructor when it comes to NITROX Certs, but when I teach the course, we watch the requisite video, go over the required Chapter reviews, and the Final Exam. Demonstrate how NITROX is Blended, demonstrate use of a couple of different types of analyzers(if available) fill out logs etc etc... While not the Recommended # of hours certainly the diver gets a worthwhile orientation.


Finally, I am glad that we are having this discussion in the basic SCUBA Discussions Forum.

Cheers,
Roger

 

[boulderjohn]

Peter,
I dont agree with you. but, I understand your position.

I am not the most experienced instructor when it comes to NITROX Certs, but when I teach the course, we watch the requisite video, go over the required Chapter reviews, and the Final Exam. Demonstrate how NITROX is Blended, demonstrate use of a couple of different types of analyzers(if available) fill out logs etc etc... While not the Recommended # of hours certainly the diver gets a worthwhile orientation.

I will take the liberty for speaking for Peter on this. If I have misunderstood him, I am sure he will politely chime in with a correction.

I am sure Peter teaches the full nitrox course, just as anyone else does. In addition, he gives a 30 second course which constitutes his own version of what he sees as the proper approach to nitrox.

One aspect of a full nitrox class is the concept of "best mix." That is, as you know, the mathematical process by which one arrives at the ideal percentage of nitrox to use for the planned dive. There is a hidden philosophy behind that instruction, a philosophy of diving the ideal mix for that depth. Counter to that is a philosophy called "standard gas." That philosophy accepts the benefits of best mix, but it argues that the benefits of a standard mix outweigh those benefits. (I know the argument well, but that is the subject for another thread.) Peter is a proponent of the benefits of using a standard mix.

Another part of the complete training for nitrox is the well-supported belief that nitrox provides no benefit in terms of narcosis. Couple that with a belief that no one should dive an equivalent narcotic depth (END) below 100 feet, and you you have support for the opinion that no one should dive any nitrox mix below 100 feet.

So, once one has taught the entire nitrox course, someone who holds the above pair of beliefs can indeed reduce it to abut 5 seconds: always dive 32% above 100 feet.

BTW, although I understand that point of view, I am not 100% there myself.

 

[dwhthediver]

What ticks me off is that the traditional scuba industry wants to make you believe it is the only way. "...

a certification is required to dive Nitrox." They would love to have you as a captive customer that has no other choice but to go through them.​

The proper answer you don't need a c-card to dive nitrox, but due to the litigious nature of people these days, a responsible dive shop owner wouldn't sell you nitrox unless you can prove you have been trained. Also, the op should know dive computers don't figure CNS exposure, and he hasn't shown he understands it either.

 

[ianr33]

Also, the op should know dive computers don't figure CNS exposure,

Huh ???

 

[dwhthediver]

The "Agency of Good Sense" I assume.

This is a real question.

If I am issuing certifications through any agency my agreement with them requires me to follow "standards". If I disagree with their philosophy, marketing practices or (fill in the blank), I can choose not to issue those certifications, but surely I should abide by the signed agreement.

Cheers,
Roger

No matter what agency you teach through there is never anything that prevents you from teaching beyond the standard. I don't know everything about diving, but I do teach beyond the standards when I know the extra work will make the student a better diver.

Also, the op should know dive computers don't figure CNS exposure,

Huh ???

They don't figure CNS exposure, they give you po2, and mod, but don't figure percentage of exposure, per dive or cumulative.

 

[ianr33]

They don't figure CNS exposure, they give you po2, and mod, but don't figure percentage of exposure, per dive or cumulative.

I have 2 computers. An Aeris Atmos Pro and a Shearwater Predator.

The Aeris has a Green/Yellow/Red bar graph for O2 loading (CNS%) Any O2 exposure stays there for 24 hours then immediately drops off.
The Shearwater has a readout of CNS%. and drops off with a 3 hour??? half life.

Maybe you need a better computer?

 

[Thalassamania]

The proper answer you don't need a c-card to dive nitrox, but due to the litigious nature of people these days, a responsible dive shop owner wouldn't sell you nitrox unless you can prove you have been trained. Also, the op should know dive computers don't figure CNS exposure, and he hasn't shown he understands it either.

The liability was self created. Many of us recommended that air should be looked at as nitrox-21 and that (at least) nitrix-32 and nitrox-36, using NOAA protocols, should be folded right into the entry level course. This would have assured that nitrox would create no new additional liability beyond the production of the mix. But ... avarice and stupidity, as usual, won out.

 

[PfcAJ]

Cuz the CNS % is a real thing...

 

[Peter Guy]

Since this IS the Basic Scuba forum, I'll just let John's response stand.

OP -- why get a Nitrox card? Because IF you want to buy Nitrox in the US (and other countries) you'll need one. And, you'll need a complete course, not merely the "30 second" version that I provide as a lead in to all my EAN classes.