WHY Dive shops make you Feel GUILTY ???

[The Kraken]

I guess my problem is that I have a hard time entertaining the hypothesis that a person who works at a dive shop has a level of experience with every type of equipment that the LDS sells,in every diving environment that the piece of equipment may be used, that would enable him/her to make an expert recommendation or condemnation of that piece of equipment.

I think the flaw in the concept is that the person working at the LDS is "assumed" to be an expert.

 

[jonnythan]

I guess my problem is that I have a hard time entertaining the hypothesis that a person who works at a dive shop has a level of experience with every type of equipment that the LDS sells,in every diving environment that the piece of equipment may be used, that would enable him/her to make an expert recommendation or condemnation of that piece of equipment.

I think the flaw in the concept is that the person working at the LDS is "assumed" to be an expert.

I can actually relate to the dive shop employee. For over a year, I worked as a salesman in EMS, selling highly technical gear to people who really use the stuff. I'd spend most of my day making recommendations on vertical ice axes, technical backpacks, backcountry skis, touring kayaks, climbing hardware, etc. Of course I only had limited experience with the vast majority of the gear we sold (though I had extensive experience with at least one or two items in almost every category), but I would never let the customer know that. You have to know how to talk the talk and feign a certain level of exerience in order to make an effective sale... and, unless what the customer *really* needs can *not* be met with a product in your store, you sell them what you have on hand.

That's how it is being a salesman for technical, often life-support gear.

That's also why I never get "advice" from a SALESman. It's his job to SELL you things, not give you impartial advice. I get my gear recommendations from experienced mountaineers, cavers, kayakers, and skiers, NOT from a dude trying to sell me something, no matter how experienced he is.

This is doubly so for dive shops, where selection is normally limited and the salesperson is even more likely to have very limited experience with gear. If the salesperson is even a diver, it's just one more diver's opinion.. and a highly biased one at that. I'd never buy anything at all on the recommendation of one person anyway.

Insisting that there is a problem when the person swiping your credit card isn't a diver is as silly as it gets.. it's their job to sell me the gear I want, not talk me into the gear they have.

 

[TCDiver1]

That's also why I never get "advice" from a SALESman. It's his job to SELL you things, not give you impartial advice. I get my gear recommendations from experienced mountaineers, cavers, kayakers, and skiers, NOT from a dude trying to sell me something, no matter how experienced he is.

The old saying is soooo true: "A good salesman can sell an eskimo an ice cube". But, i do find the premise that all salesman lack the integrity to sell "what you need vs what they want", to be a little strong. Some salesman can be trusted to do the right thing Jon.

Either way, i agree it matters little if that salesman works at LDS X or internet shop Y. Either they have the ability & desire to do the right thing or they don't. Someone brought up the most important point on this issue earlier in the thread .... Caveat Emptor (buyer beware) ... in all cases. In the end, we buy the wrong thing, we only have ourselves to blame.

This circular debate will just go on & on & on & on & ....

The answer to the original question is really simple though.
1.) Because they are bad business people
2.) Because some manufacturers give them little choice
3.) See number one above

 

[Derek S]

A couple of rehtorical questions....

Is it better to buy from an LDS with an online presence (for example scubatoys) that gives objective and (mostly) unbiased opinions/advice than it is to buy from a true LDS who is motivated more by profit than what is good for the customer?

Should one assume that a LDS employee is automatically an accomplished diver, and as such can offer expert advice on whatever they sell?

Should one automatically assume that an LDS instructor is an accomplished diver, even when in truth they haven't done a dive outside the teaching environment in over a year and a half?

Should a diver be made to feel guilty for purchasing gear at another brick and mortar LDS because the LDS they frequent sells that particular piece of gear for $500 more?

Should a diver believe everything their LDS tells them? If the LDS tells them that a particular brand of gear is "blantly unsafe" (which incedentally, they don't sell) even though said gear has been used by many in some of the most demanding environments on Earth, resulting in World Records by some?

Should a diver be goaded into purchasing "non-life support/non-warranty issue gear" from a particular LDS at much inflated prices to satisfy the own financial agendas of the LDS owner?

Should a diver be made to feel guilty for purchasing gear at another brick and mortar LDS because the LDS they frequent doesn't carry said line of gear?

 

[jonnythan]

The old saying is soooo true: "A good salesman can sell an eskimo an ice cube". But, i do find the premise that all salesman lack the integrity to sell "what you need vs what they want", to be a little strong. Some salesman can be trusted to do the right thing Jon.

I absolutely agree.. some can. I don't think that all salesmen are crooked or anything silly like that, just that taking advice from salesmen as a general rule is..... well, against my principles

 

[simbrooks]

Is it better to buy from an LDS with an online presence (for example scubatoys) that gives objectionable and (mostly) unbiased opinions/advice than it is to buy from a true LDS who is motivated more by profit than what is good for the customer?

I hope you meant objective - unbiased, rather than objectional - rude.

 

[simbrooks]

I absolutely agree.. some can. I don't think that all salesmen are crooked or anything silly like that, just that taking advice from salesmen as a general rule is..... well, against my principles

I agree with Jon, unlike law, where it is innocent until proven guilty, i treat salespeople as guilty until proven innocent - the general trend is there, only the rare few get into the innocent catagory it seems. I still respect their position and listen to what they have to say, but dont rely on it to make my decisions.

 

[jonnythan]

I hope you meant objective - unbiased, rather than objectional - rude.

I dunno.. that Larry dude really grates on me, yanno? He's an objectionable fellow

 

[Derek S]

I hope you meant objective - unbiased, rather than objectional - rude.

Yes I do. Oopsie...

*Edit - Fix-ed. I R goode at english. :11:

 

[pilot fish]

That's right, you need advice from another diver who is your friend, knows what he is talking about, and DOESN'T work for a dive shop. After you decide what you want, it doesn't matter what monkey rings it up. I was lucky. I instinctively backed away from my certifying LDS's hard-sell and have zero regrets about that. No Cochran Commander for me, boo-hoo.

The divers at my LDS have been very helpful and have not sold me a lot of crap. Even have steered me away from stuff that was more expensive for gear they felt would be better for me. That might be because they are so successful and do a lot of business that they don't need to pressure you?