Why did Horse Collar BC's fade away?

[Aura]

I guess you're not going to explain your derogatory comments, so be it. No, I'm not fanatical about defending the Horse Collar but you seem pretty silly for attacking it! Have you ever even tried one? I think not, based on your comment.

I'm not interested in engaging in your hostile form of communication, so this will be my last reply in the thread. If you don't want to come across as angry and upset, then I don't understand why you use such an excessive amount of exclamation marks and unnecessarily combative language.
I have not "attacked" the horse collar BC, I simply pointed out that it would be a poor choice of equipment for the type of diving I do.
I don't need to do 60m air dives to conclude that trimix is better for it.
I don't need to dive with a J-valve to conclude that it's an obsolete piece of junk for most diving.
I don't need to dive with an unsealed first stage in freezing weather to find out that it's a bad idea.
I don't need to dive with a horse collar BC to decide that it's a bad choice for diving with 3-4 heavy steel tanks. If you want to dive one for nostalgic reasons, be my guest. I never said you shouldn't.

It's dishonest when you on one hand claim you're not attacking the modern BCD, while on the other hand going on about how it's a "life taking device". You're going on about a myth about being pushed forward in the water, while anyone who's actually learned to properly use a modern BCD without being grossly overweighted can tell you that it's simply not true. You would also know that if you had used one for more than two pool sessions and one OW dive.

Feel free to respond if you need to get more frustrations out of your system, but I'm not going to entertain this further.

EDIT: I've slightly altered my statement for the sake of not sparking a new discussion on the merits of the use of a J-valve. I thought vintage equipment divers were immune to the word "obsolete" though.

 

[rx7diver]

... I don't need to dive with a J-valve to conclude that it's an obsolete piece of junk. ...

Now you're just being blasphemous!

rx7diver

 

[James79]

I don't need to dive with a J-valve to conclude that it's an obsolete piece of junk.

While I agree with most of you post, this one bit is a little off. While a J-valve may not be the right tool (or even a good tool) for most modern diving, for vintage enthusiasts it still provides a reserve when diving without a gauge. For black water divers, it provides a reserve when you can't read a gauge. For some mission sets (even modern ones) it not only isn't an "obsolete piece of junk," but is the right tool for the job!

Respectfully,

James

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Plus using J-Valves is just fun!
It’s kinda cool when all your calculations are right and you need to pull the J right about when you’re finishing your dive and coming up to your final stop.

 

[Bob DBF]

Interesting, 90% never dumped their weight belt. and of those 90%, half never even inflated any sort of inflation device.

I see a training problem here.

Dead people and those in full panic are highly unlikely to drop their weights or inflate their BC.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Dead people and those in full panic are highly unlikely to drop their weights or inflate their BC.

These days there is a subset of divers that don’t believe in dumpable weights or weightbelts at all, they attach all their weight onto their rigs and make it all undumpable. Can you imagine!
Even some of the poodle jackets these days have integrated weight pockets that are very difficult to undo with thick gloves, not something that can be dealt with in a hurry.
The good old standard weightbelt is slowly becoming obsolete too I’m afraid.
I still use one, maybe I’m obsolete?
I do know how to have fun though, and shoot my dinner!
During my skin diving days before I did any scuba diving we were taught that if you got in trouble the first thing you did was dump your weightbelt.
This practice was also taught in scuba. We had non integrated jackets and were taught to “roll on” a weightbelt on the surface and at depth.

 

[Bob DBF]

These days there is a subset of divers that don’t believe in dumpable weights or weightbelts at all, they attach all their weight onto their rigs and make it all undumpable. Can you imagine!

Not me, I was trained by old timers, and ran into enough lessons along the way. I may not carry all my weight on the belt, but I always wear a belt.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Not me, I was trained by old timers, and ran into enough lessons along the way. I may not carry all my weight on the belt, but I always wear a belt.

Damn right!
You know just like me that diving the North Coast can be tricky and challenging.
The sea can come up unexpectedly and combined with even a minor navigational error could mean coming up in a washing machine next to a wash rock or outside of the intended cove in a treacherous area like up against a cliff with threatening swells.
We’ve all done it, especially if you want to dive a lot and get better at diving in challenging conditions.
Having a form of ditchable weight is not only smart but can also add greatly to safety in the form of establishing lightness and also to gain agility to be able to get the hell away from hazards (get the F out of Dodge!) and still keep your rig on with an air source.
I’ve never had to dump weight yet in my short 25 years of diving but you never know. What I do know is I’ll always have the safety feature of diving with a weightbelt. I see it as dirt cheap insurance.

 

[Waterwulf]

Well, thanks for the responses. It pretty much confirmed what I already suspected. "Convenience" won out over anything else. The modern rigs are more convenient to use and train on so they became the norm. I can understand that even though the old Horse Collar rigs (once trained for) are safer on the surface for most people. That's my opinion but it's not worth any more than yours. It's based on my own research and experience. I will continue to use my old fashioned Horse Collar for both diving and snorkeling.

Which brings me to my next subject:
Horse Collars! More specifically, Horse Collar air bladders. I have an old HCBC that's getting up there in years. The stitching on the external bag is fine but the internal air bladder is getting old. The whole thing has been updated with a shoulder dump valve, a power inflator and a parachute type harness. I need to replace the internal air bladder but they haven't been made in quite a few years.

So, I'm going to make my own! I'll take the old one apart as a pattern and have a supplier for the Polyvinyl C. material and the adhesive but don't know what gauge materiel to use. I could measure the old one once I cut it apart but would like to have everything on hand once I start the job. Does anybody know how thick the internal air bladders are?

 

[Tribal]

I can understand that even though the old Horse Collar rigs (once trained for) are safer on the surface for most people.

The Scubapro masterjacket qualifies as a lifejacket aswell iirc.

I guess that you take your parachute with you if you go on a commercial plane aswell? Imagine the plane goes down and you don’t have one with you.