Why did Horse Collar BC's fade away?

[John C. Ratliff]

Terry, and others, the BCD has become a "Hub" for everything in a scuba unit. That's why it costs more than a regulator.

I have two Buoyancy Control Devices that were made by Dacor, called the Dacor Nautilus CVS (for Constant Volume System). I dive them regularly, and they integrate the scuba, the weights, and the buoyancy control into one unit. But it never caught on when introduced in the late 1970s. Why? I have several photos of the Dacor Nautilus CVS below.

Here's a video of me using the Dacor Nautilus CVS with my Triense II regulator.


The Nautilus allowed the use of a back-mount system, which the diver could adjust just once, and the buoyancy control would then not change with changes in depth. It was actually a very good system, ahead of its time. It is limited to a single tank though, limiting its ability to be used in Technical Diving.

By the way, Dennis Graver was my ITC director when he was with NAUI. At that time, we had life vests and no BC or BCD available for diving. Dennis oversaw our training as instructors, and put on a great course. Part of that course was that we had to do actual mouth-to-mouth artificial respiration on each other while towing our inert diver through 200 yards of California surf. Buoyancy control wasn't taught then (1973, as I recall) as there were no BCDs available. We all had life vests on for our in-water course work.

SeaRat

 

[Waterwulf]

He is being purposely obtuse for sake of argument. But, I was reading the www and came across this:

A “Device” Does Not Control Your Buoyancy - Cave Diver Harry

Odds are, you learned that the object in the accompanying picture is called a Buoyancy Control Device or BCD. The funny thing is, most of the companies that make this equipment — not to mention the majority of dive magazines and training agencies — don’t call it that. The most commonly used name...

cavediverharry.com

And this fellow nails it! Dang, he is right and dang if I am not wrong. Wow! He says that the primary purpose for the BC is not buoyancy control but that it acts as a hub to integrate the scuba outfit into one manageable kit. YES! I have always thought this but never really said it that way. Because buoyancy control is not a primary function with a BC, but with weighting and breath control instead. Now he really does not address trim, places where jacket styles and back inflate or wings have a definite advantage but still, the BC is a collector and integrator that takes the diver, cylinders, weights and what not paraphernalia and puts it all together and the horse collar is especially poor at that primary function. And in any case, they are not life jackets. Your life jacket is your buddy and if you are a solo diver commonly then you better have the skills to swim (swagger, waddle, crawl) through that door.

No, I am not being obtuse for the sake of the argument. I'm just an old guy who has lived in a crazy world and survived more than once because of some little quirk of fate. Usually, that little quirk was me or somebody else wondering "hey, what if this goes wrong"? Then making some kind of prep for in the event of.

And before you go there: No, I'm not obsessed with being safe either. I have taken a lot of chances in my life but I always considered safety while doing it. I'm sure that's why I'm still here. I'm not concerned about being safe but I do spend a lot of time on safety!

Yes, the modern BCD has become the hub of equipment on a diver. There's no doubt about that;. I admit it. I'm envious of the number of pockets and attachment points that a modern BCD has! I see people getting in the water while I'm still strapping on my HCBC, my knife, my tanks, my..etc. etc. etc. I've said it before that I plan on disassembling an old Horse Collar so I can make a pattern from the parts to make my own brand new one except it will have lot's of pockets, attachment points and a padded collar so it doesn't rub on my neck.

I started this thread to discuss the demise of the old fashioned Horse Collar Buoyancy Compensator. I already knew some of the answers, wondered about a couple of other reasons and learned some new stuff from the respondents. I stated several times throughout this thread that I get it, I understand the reasoning why the use of the HCBC faded away.
The modern BCD is a heck of a lot easier to get dressed.
The modern BCD is a heck of a lot easier to train.
The modern BCD has many more pockets and A/T points.
The modern BCD is just all around easier to use.

All of those things are true and can not be denied, at least not by me. In my opinion, easier is not better. In the case of the modern BCD, it's not even safer. The vintage Horse Collar Buoyancy Compensators have saved the lives of sport divers and military divers the world over. That's fact. The only way a modern BCD is going to save a lost drifting diver, is if he throws away his gear, takes his BCD off and lays on it! That's also a fact. The reason is because eventually, he will become tired of trying to stay upright because of it's tendency to push his face into the water and drown him! A HCBC will keep you face up even if you're unconscious. Neither of those things can be denied.

I'll continue to use my old vintage Horse Collar Buoyancy Compensator. I even use it for snorkeling. I did (and will do more) a lot of drift diving in the spring rivers in Florida. Crystal clear and cold. Some have a high speed current and are lots of fun when there's a bunch of divers. Sometimes we did what we called "Boondocking". The boat would drop us all off at the top of the Blue Run and then take off to go fishing or water skiing further down the river. Then we would dive, snorkel and float a few miles all of the way back to the meet up point. The ones who used the modern BCD have to had inner tubes to hold onto when they're floating. But not us old vintage divers with our antique HCBC's. We just give it a few puffs, lay back and relax.

I tried the modern jacket BCD and did not like it. I tried it three times and the result was alway the same. A lot of drag underwater and controllable on the surface only with constant attention. I want to enjoy the time in the water, not have to work at it!

Yeah yeah yeah...why worry about safety in these modern times? The Coasty's will find you fast, your equipment will never fail and you'll never surface and wonder "hey, wtf is the boat"? However, I'm not like you! The Coasty's took a day and all night to find me, I did have a regulator malfunction but I didn't wonder where the boat was. I knew it was close but we couldn't see it because of the twenty foot whitecaps stirred up by a local squall. Stuff happens and it happens fast. When it does, I'll be wearing my Horse Collar Buoyancy Compensator if I'm in the water. I promise I'll try to keep you upright in your modern BCD for as long as i can!!!

 

[Nemrod]

I have two Buoyancy Control Devices that were made by Dacor, called the Dacor Nautilus CVS (for Constant Volume System). I dive them regularly, and they integrate the scuba, the weights, and the buoyancy control into one unit. But it never caught on when introduced in the late 1970s. Why?

SeaRat

Mr. John, they did not catch on because they do not fold up into a suitcase. That is an easy one. This clever system is doomed to similar end I fear:

Avelo

www.diveavelo.com

It neither will fit in my roller bag which is already full and I am not going to pay to rent one at a dive destination when many places offer free tanks full up with Nitrox, as many as I can use! But it is a cool idea and so was the Nautilus and several others of similar nature.

You are really a rarity, in many ways , for one you dive mostly locally. I used to most of my life have access to nearby good places to dive. But now, alas, I climb aboard a big jet airplane or stretch the legs of the Toyota to take me far away and I just have no room for such contraptions and neither do other divers, most of who also travel to dive.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Waterwulf, I tried making those arguments in the 1980s, to no avail. As Terry above states, most divers now travel, and don't like anything that is not integrated. They also don't like straps. Well, I grew up with straps, and decided with my Para-Sea BC to incorporate the parachute harness design into one of scuba.

Now, on December 8th, 1974 I had an experience much like yours. I was using my Bill Herder wetsuit with a BCD built into its back, but also wearing a front-mount life vest. Here's what my dive log (I wrote extensively about this incident) says about that dive plan:

DIVE PLAN: swim out into waves, test back swimming concept and observe marine life while helping Bruce* stabilize for underwater macro photography; turned out much different & spent almost 3 hours in the water.

In short, we went out after watching the water off Otter Crest, Oregon for almost half an hour. While out, the waves changed from dive-able to much larger. Here's my dive log narration:

On bottom--found we were on sand bottom & apparently in a rip channel. swam right (north) and got to the rocks--surge was unusually heavy. Hung onto rock (see observations) and was flipped each way violently. Lost hold--tent to top of rock & found a hole. Tried to wedge myself into it (hole) but couldn't do it because Bruce was free and pulling. Decided to let go & go out. We started really going out in the rip. I gave the danger signal and signed to surface.

Bruce and I were tied together with a 1/4 inch nylon line, two brass connectors, and two waist straps made of parachute webbing (2 inches wide) with D-rings sewn into the webbing. There was no way we were going to get separated.

We made a "1st Abortive try to exit." Here's what I wrote in my dive log:

A. We surfaced--I inflated my back (wet suit), spit out my mouthpice & began swimming in on my back; Bruce began snorkeling in with me.

B. I was looking seaward, Bruce toward he shore; I remember saying "Bruce--there's a big one (wave) coming" and searching for my regulator. Before I found it, the wave broke over us. I was tumbling feet over head & xtotally unaware of Bruce & the buddy line (w/I still hand in my left hand). I was aware of three things 1. Tumbling 2. Somethig pulling & twisting my right leg--felt like my fin would come off 3. I was painfully aware that I had no air supply & was beginning to hurt for air. I tried reaching around for my regulator & was unsuccessful. At this point I was starved for air & decided to just relax. If I was "buying the farm" it would be relaxed. I still reached unsuccessfully trying for the regulator. At this point where I was almost expecting blackout, I was suddenly on he surface & breathing--At no point did I chock on sea water although (later I found out) my sinuses were completely filled w/ sea water.

C. Bruce was also on the surface--and we were looking at each other to see if everything was still intact--the buddy line had held. I was stairght up in the water, looking seaward (3/4 flip), Bruce was looking at me. 'Got regs in mouth & breathed sweet, dry air.

D. We both decided that this wasn't the place to be, and we looked seaward. ZAfter getting out, we spent a long time regaining our wits. While swimming out I gane an "Okay" signal to the girls--meaning we were physically okay. We thought it was rather obvious that we were in an emegency.

At this point both Bruce and I dropped our weight belts, and inflated our front-mounted vests. Both Bruce and I were wearing helmets, but Bruce's was held only by Velcro, and mine was was held by a nylon strap and double D-rings. We drifted for a long time, hours actually. Our girl friends by this time had called the Coast Guard, and unknown to us they were on the way. We had been in the water over two hours tow, with waves running 15-20 feet. We watched as the light began to fad, and cars on Highway 101 turned on their lights. We started to think about how it would be to spend the night in the water. At one point, we were close to Whale Cove, which we thought could be an exit point, but then saw waves breaking clear across the entrance to the cove.

We were about to think about staying out the night, when I saw a Coast Guard cutter out beyond us. I waved, and they saw my helmet (which had a white strip on it), turned in and came along side of us. We flippered up and into the cutter, and were very grateful to be in the boat. They were equally happy to rescue us, as we were their first live rescues in over a year (they had picked up several bodies prior).

From this I started re-designing my dive equipment, which ultimately led to my devising the Para-Sea BC. I don't travel to dive, and I like straps. I have been trained in parascuba jumping as an Air Force Pararescueman, so I had no problem with straps. A parachute harness is much more comfortable than a crotch strap/waist strap on a conventional vest design, and with hip connectors, I had a wonderful attachment for the scuba that also eliminated the waist strap. So I thought I had a very successful, and very safe, design, as it provided the buoyancy in front, kept an unconscious diver face-up, and still provided good buoyancy control and trim while underwater. But dive companys (I approached several) didn't like the design, so it as a very expensive, and time consuming experiment.

SeaRat

*Bruce Higgins was my dive buddy, and our two girl friends called the Coast Guard (as briefed before the dive) exactly when they should have. The photos below show this dive, taken by our girl friends. The first was before the wave broke over us, and the second after (note Bruce not having his helmet in the second photo). The third simply documented the waves crashing into the coast at Rocky Creek. The fourth was of me in parascuba gear as a USAF Reserve Pararescueman with the 304th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Squadron, Portland, Oregon in 1975.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Waterwulf, I tried making those arguments in the 1980s, to no avail. As Terry above states, most divers now travel, and don't like anything that is not integrated. They also don't like straps. Well, I grew up with straps, and decided with my Para-Sea BC to incorporate the parachute harness design into one of scuba.

Now, on December 8th, 1974 I had an experience much like yours. I was using my Bill Herder wetsuit with a BCD built into its back, but also wearing a front-mount life vest. Here's what my dive log (I wrote extensively about this incident) says about that dive plan:

In short, we went out after watching the water off Otter Crest, Oregon for almost half an hour. While out, the waves changed from dive-able to much larger. Here's my dive log narration:

Bruce and I were tied together with a 1/4 inch nylon line, two brass connectors, and two waist straps made of parachute webbing (2 inches wide) with D-rings sewn into the webbing. There was no way we were going to get separated.

We made a "1st Abortive try to exit." Here's what I wrote in my dive log:


At this point both Bruce and I dropped our weight belts, and inflated our front-mounted vests. Both Bruce and I were wearing helmets, but Bruce's was held only by Velcro, and mine was was held by a nylon strap and double D-rings. We drifted for a long time, hours actually. Our girl friends by this time had called the Coast Guard, and unknown to us they were on the way. We had been in the water over two hours tow, with waves running 15-20 feet. We watched as the light began to fad, and cars on Highway 101 turned on their lights. We started to think about how it would be to spend the night in the water. At one point, we were close to Whale Cove, which we thought could be an exit point, but then saw waves breaking clear across the entrance to the cove.

We were about to think about staying out the night, when I saw a Coast Guard cutter out beyond us. I waved, and they saw my helmet (which had a white strip on it), turned in and came along side of us. We flippered up and into the cutter, and were very grateful to be in the boat. They were equally happy to rescue us, as we were their first live rescues in over a year (they had picked up several bodies prior).

From this I started re-designing my dive equipment, which ultimately led to my devising the Para-Sea BC. I don't travel to dive, and I like straps. I have been trained in parascuba jumping as an Air Force Pararescueman, so I had no problem with straps. A parachute harness is much more comfortable than a crotch strap/waist strap on a conventional vest design, and with hip connectors, I had a wonderful attachment for the scuba that also eliminated the waist strap. So I thought I had a very successful, and very safe, design, as it provided the buoyancy in front, kept an unconscious diver face-up, and still provided good buoyancy control and trim while underwater. But dive companys (I approached several) didn't like the design, so it as a very expensive, and time consuming experiment.

SeaRat

*Bruce Higgins was my dive buddy, and our two girl friends called the Coast Guard (as briefed before the dive) exactly when they should have. The photos below show this dive, taken by our girl friends. The first was before the wave broke over us, and the second after (note Bruce not having his helmet in the second photo). The third simply documented the waves crashing into the coast at Rocky Creek. The fourth was of me in parascuba gear as a USAF Reserve Pararescueman with the 304th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Squadron, Portland, Oregon in 1975.

Your story was a great read. These types of stories are what keeps me here instead of abandoning SB for good. It was raw, honest, and valuable. Normally this type if thing gets flamed with a dog pile and tons of scolding for being in the ocean that day blah blah by divers with about 1/1000 of your experience level.

It reminds me of a dive I did, except not as rough conditions, but still a good rip and some pretty big surf. This dive was why I finally got rid of the DIR configuration long hose and dry suit.
We were diving a site in Norcal called Fisk Mill Cove South. It’s a bit if a goat hike to get to it with a bluff and a steep trail on a shelf rock to get to the cove. This site is prone to rip currents which we did not know at the time, and the sea can come up quick because the site is exposed, that we knew.
Going out was not bad and the dive was great. We came up pretty far out and needed to snorkel in. I remember the kelp was thick. The swell had picked up while we were out. The tide was also coming in. It was 4’- 6’ when we went out (which was doable) and now it was about 10’ with an occasional bigger set. We were finning hard trying to make headway. There was a hard rip tide pulling us out away from shore, even though the tide was technically coming in. Sometimes it works like that. I would look up and realize after 10 minutes of aggressive finning we hardly made any distance. The kelp was starting to lay down heading out so we knew the current was picking up. The increased swell coming in and the current bouncing off the shore and headed away from shore made for some steep and difficult swells to contend with.
Finally after kicking like hell for 30 minutes we finally made it to the entrance to the cove which had white water roaring in as the swells broke. We were hanging onto some kelp to try and stay in place so we could time the waves and make a break for it to shore. We finally decided to go for it and we were on our own to get through the break zone. This site is all rocks below the surface, there is no sand. There is also a rocky shelf right at the entrance to the cove which causes a bad break right at the mouth of the cove. I was exhausted and overheated sweating like crazy in my drysuit from so much hard finning. My buddy was ahead if me and managed to make it in past the break. I think he body surfed in. I on the other hand was trying to lay on my back and fin in as hard as I could. Right when I was over the rocky bar (face up) a huge swell came up and went right over me. My reg was gone, my mask got dislodged and flooded, I was choking. Another big swell went over me again. I realized I was entangled in feather boa that had wrapped around my tank and that stupid long hose. It was wrapped around my body and neck DIR style. The kelp had grabbed the hose behind my neck and yanked it right out of my mouth. Another swell bigger than the last one hit me again and by this time I haven’t had any air for what seems like an eternity, I’m grabbing for my necklaced second stage and just then the third swell rips me loose and sends me ass over tea kettle tumbling into the cove. My buddy was already unrigged and ran over dragging me out as I’m still sputtering.

That was a huge learning lesson for me. No more long hose wrapped around anything! DIR configuration does not work in Norcal ocean conditions doing a shore dive! I went to a modified reg set up better for the environment where I dive. I went to good quality wetsuits for sleekness and more trouble free service, got rid if a lot if unnecessary fluff that just becomes an entanglement hazard. I changed my philosophy. For me, the less I have on and the more agile I become the safer I am. The more crap I have on, the more bogged down I feel and the result is less safe because I don’t have the freedom to get out of stuff. This incident taught me that less is more.
I don’t know how all this would have gone if I was in a horse collar BC instead if a heavy BP/W? Probably better than what I experienced.
I was using a BP/W with a donut wing.
I have never used a jacket BC except for OW training. My buddy was in a wetsuit and a jacket BC with a standard reg set up and did better than I did, FWIW.

 

[Waterwulf]

Waterwulf, I tried making those arguments in the 1980s, to no avail. As Terry above states, most divers now travel, and don't like anything that is not integrated. They also don't like straps. Well, I grew up with straps, and decided with my Para-Sea BC to incorporate the parachute harness design into one of scuba.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. The day of the Horse Collar Buoyancy Compensator is long past. That's ok though. I wasn't trying to argue with anybody and apologize if any took it that way. I just wanted to know why it faded in popularity. I pretty much already knew the answer. Harder to train, harder to use and minimal pockets and A/T points. With proper training though, the HCBC is safer. I'll continue to use mine. Yeah yeah yeah but no rational person ever plans on drowning, do they?

 

[jadairiii]

The only way a modern BCD is going to save a lost drifting diver, is if he throws away his gear, takes his BCD off and lays on it! That's also a fact. The reason is because eventually, he will become tired of trying to stay upright because of it's tendency to push his face into the water and drown him! A HCBC will keep you face up even if you're unconscious. Neither of those things can be denied.

I will have to take issue with this statement. I started using a back mounted BC in 1977, and since that time have used it exclusively for all of my diving. On certain occasions I have had to spend some quality time drifting, in very rough water, in the gulf stream. I have never experienced my wing pushing my face in the water to drown me. So I will "deny" your statement. But that is only 46 years of using a wing, maybe I need to dive it longer to experience the issues you discuss?

 

[Nemrod]

I will have to take issue with this statement. I started using a back mounted BC in 1977, and since that time have used it exclusively for all of my diving. On certain occasions I have had to spend some quality time drifting, in very rough water, in the gulf stream. I have never experienced my wing pushing my face in the water to drown me. So I will "deny" your statement. But that is only 46 years of using a wing, maybe I need to dive it longer to experience the issues you discuss?

Same here. I began using so called back inflate (wings) in about 1976 or whenever it was that Scubapro introduced one as indicated earlier. I too have spent quality time drifting in the Gulf Stream waiting pickup. I will usually have my DSMB (safety sausage) inflated. It can be wrapped around the chest and under the arms for additional flotation if needed, I have done it a few times. Wings really do not push the diver face down but there is a learning curve and technique involved. But, anyways, once I know the boat captain knows where I am and will be along when he gets to me, I just lay back on my wing and put my sausage under my arms for additional stability and take a nap.

There have been a few times while scuba diving that I swore if I ever got my footsies back on dry land that I would NEVER dive again. One was a few years back, the St Andrews jetty in Florida, mentioned it earlier. It is one of the places where I often use a horse collar. It was a fairly rough day but not too bad, a few surfers working the waves by the jetty. I decided to enter direct from shore, beach side, and go out and around staying tight to the jetty and submerge right at the end and then ride the incoming tide in to the baby pool cross over. All was going well and was looking forward to picking up the (deceased) sand dollars as big as pie plates off the jetty end but then it all went wrong. I looked up and I was a hundred yards into the pass and going out fast. I was in the eddy and the jetty was dissappearing from view. I inflated my horse collar and popped my sausage because there were boats all over going fast. I do not know, I guess the attempted effort to swim against the current, waves washing over me and the inflated horse collar pressing against my too tight wetsuit top, got my fins tangled in my flag float line, well, I just did not want to be there. It was one of those times. I could not get a breath, the horse collar up around my neck and chest and the waves! And then the eddy that took me out, brought me right back, I submerged, found a nice sand dollar, rode the current back to the baby pool crossing, great dive. Climbed out of the water exhausted though and it being a nice sunny early spring day walked (crawled) back to the sandy place on the beach side to watch the surfers and stripped my gear off and wetsuit and just laid in the sand contemplating life. I guess I decided to continue diving.

 

[jadairiii]

I began using so called back inflate (wings) in about 1976 or whenever it was that Scubapro introduced one as indicated earlier.

Same, ScubaPro BCP in '76/77, switched to an At-Pac in late '78 and around 2000's moved to a SS BP/Wing, Halcyon.

 

[Nemrod]

Same, ScubaPro BCP in '76/77, switched to an At-Pac in late '78 and around 2000's moved to a SS BP/Wing, Halcyon.

Have you ever thought you should just throw some things away and do so and then go retrieve them from the trash? And just cannot let them go even knowing full well they will never be used again?



That is Seatec wing number 3 and I used it up until I bought an early Oxy 30# Mach V wing. It is, I think, still good to go. The prior two were so worn out there was only a semblance of them left, not even enough to throw away.