Why bother with GUE fundamentals?

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I am still going to have to search for the perfect mouthpiece. 10 dives on any mouthpiece and I have apthous ulcers under my gums. I've seen some that is shaped like the seacures and will have to try them. Certainly I can survive 10 dives in a 5 days GUE-F class..... but once done, the seacure goes back on....

I don't think it is latex allergy.... as I wear latex gloves daily without problems.
 
I almost took GUE-F last year. But was turned off a little due to the intensity of the skills practiced by the local DIR group. Some of whom said they do not want to sign up for GUE-F until they are better "prepared".

Some of our local DIR boys are a bit like that - always doing drills in the lake, never getting to the ocean. They've kinda forgotten the point, which is to have fun.

I'd say that the best thing is to do no "preparation" at all, turn up for the course and see how you go. You may not "pass" the course, but if you're signing up for it just wanting the card then you might want to think about your motivation. Turning up as a blank sheet means you've got plenty of space to actual learn - where as I had to unlearn some bad habits before we could really progress.

By bad habits, it's mostly muscle memory - so little things like where I position my arm whilst doing valve drills. I've always found valve drills, particular left post, quite hard. Our instructor pointed out that the problem was mostly my arm position. When he moved the arm to a different position, it was so much easier. I'm still trying to unlearn that muscle memory and get my arm consistently in the position where I can do the drill easy as, instead of struggling.
 
Possible reasons:

1) the desire to (possibly) better your diving skills/knowledge/comfort without the desire to dive caverns or caves
2) the desire to (possibly) better your diving skills/knowledge/comfort without the ability (e.g. geographic) to dive caverns or caves
3) the desire to eventually take technical or cave courses through GUE

Also, the same rigidity which you feel is offputting assures you of what you'll be getting regardless of instructor.
 
Howard, perhaps you don't take my humor well. It is a serious question, with a little mix of my dislike of rigidity. But as I understand, much of the skills taught in GUE-F is essentially the skills taught in a cavern/intro cave course. Why go one path, when the other path might be more interesting.

With people here having gone both routes - it is a serious question. But hopefully you still retain a sense of humor.

Who is bashing GUE? If you can not give clear guidance, except to call people who ask a simple question "uneducated", it does sound a little odd.

Oh I get your "sense of humor" just fine...

But what you're admitting here is that this isn't a "basic scuba discussion". You're admitting that you're trolling.

I'm glad to see you're getting some good responses though. :)
 
I think this is actually a very good question, because some portions of the classes are quite similar, and people often have an erroneous conception of what Fundies is, and how GUE goes about teaching it. As someone who has taken GUE-F, Cavern, Intro and GUE Cave 1, here's my take on it:

First off, not everybody lives where there are caverns. GUE-F can be taught anywhere there's water to dive in. If there isn't a local GUE instructor, there's always someone who will come in to teach a class, if you can get enough students together. If you have to travel for either class, that will change the equation a little.

Second, GUE-F focuses on skills that are applicable in any diving environment. You won't spend time running line or following it blind, because those are specific overhead environment skills. You WILL spend time practicing precise buoyancy, perfecting horizontal trim, learning non-silting propulsion skills, and doing emergency drills. All of those skills are useful in any diving environment. The only thing in GUE-F that isn't is bag shooting, and that is only NOT useful in the overhead.

Third, people get WAY too worked up about "practicing for the class". GUE-F is a class that introduces you to a lot of new things and a completely new standard for diving skill (at least for most of us). PASSING the class is only necessary if you want to take a more advanced GUE course. Taking it and getting a provisional will still leave you with a ton of information and some new skills, even if they're kind of embryonic, and a good idea of what and how to practice to continue to develop them. In my experience, the skills I got from Fundies increased the FUN I have with every single dive I do, in ANY environment, and even with ANY buddies.

DIR diving tends to attract people who want to be really good at something, and those people can get pretty intense and overfocused at times (am I describing myself, maybe?) You don't have to spend all your time in a quarry doing ascent drills to take or benefit from GUE-F. Some directly applied practice definitely pays off, though; at least for me, some of these skills have been very hard to master to the standards of the agency, and have required some real work. But a lot of the practice can be done during any fun dive . . . Working on hovering, using your back kick to maintain positioning, practicing good team communication. These things all add to the quality of every dive you do, and you don't have to dedicate any specific dive to working on them.

My understanding is that a cavern class will spend time working on buoyancy, trim, and non-silting propulsion. Mine didn't, because it didn't have to; we had all those things down, and could spend our time in the class working on overhead-specific things like line running and following, blind exits and the like. My personal feeling is that, if you are interested in diving in overhead environments, it makes sense to master the skills you can in open water, before you travel for the overhead training, so that you can maximize your very environment-specific learning. I know for sure that we got to do better dives in our Intro to Cave class (which immediately followed cavern) simply because we had our basic skills nailed before we got there.

That's my take on it. I think anybody considering overhead training should do GUE-F at home, or close to home, and spend time practicing before they travel for their cave training. It certainly worked beautifully for me.

And fisher, unless you have been diving with GUE or cave divers and getting some mentoring, I will almost guarantee you that the class will be difficult, and that you may not pass it. It's okay! A lot of us didn't pass the class the first time; I took the whole six month grace period to get my rec pass (which simply means single tank). But the improvement in my diving and in my FUN started long before the six months were up.
 
I actually learned something from this thread. I didn't believe that would happen judging from page one content, lol. I thought fisher asked a good question but the wording was a bit off is all and that set off alarms understandably. I understood the question because as a diver who dives with GUE divers but isn't GUE, I have frequently wondered about the course content and have also considered intro to cavern vs gue-f. Thanks to those who saw past the crap and answered in a friendly and informative manner.

On that note, I used a 7 foot long hose for the first time this weekend and I have to say that the whole bungee and long hose set up spoke to me. We shall see...

I think I would fall into the category of someone who would enjoy the gue-f class but wouldn't care about the pass/fail aspect because I have ZERO interest in going past rescue diver/average joe single tank diving BUT I am still interested in the skills and being pushed a bit. This thread clarified a few things for me.
 
II understood the question because as a diver who dives with GUE divers but isn't GUE, I have frequently wondered about the course content and have also considered intro to cavern vs gue-f.

Another thing I liked about GUE-F was the way our instructor tailored the content to suit what we knew - rather than focusing on what we already knew/could do, it meant we got more time to learn/do new things.

From memory, we spent about 10 minutes talking about EANx - mostly behind the philosophy of why use a standardised gas as opposed to the theory of using EANx... given that both of us on the course had done Advanced EANx courses, it really would have just been a waste of everyone's time.


On that note, I used a 7 foot long hose for the first time this weekend and I have to say that the whole bungee and long hose set up spoke to me. We shall see...

It's the start of a slippery slope..... :D:D
 
TSandM's response is much better than anything I could write. (OK, she's sitting across from me and I want to maintain harmony!)

Anyway, I'm one of the few who have taken Breathru Diving's Essentials/Rec 2 and Rec 3; GUE's DIR-F and TDI Cavern/Intro/Cave (hey, I might be the only person to have done all those classes, but I digress). Anyway, what TSandM wrote is absolutely correct -- the skills taught in DIR-F directly translate to much of what you will learn in Cavern/Intro/Cave -- but why not learn them before the overhead since THOSE skills are not overhead specific.

My OW diving has been much enhanced (especially my photography diving skills) by what I learned in Essentials/DIR-F. Those skills also made my Cavern/Intro classes much more overhead specific which I believe gave me a much better "introduction" to the caves.

In my Cavern class there was one other DIR-F graduate (TSandM) and one person who was brand new to all of these things. I can absolutely guarantee you that TSandM and I got a much better cave education than the guy who had never done a back-kick, frog kick, etc.

I think it is much better to learn the "basics" outside of the Cavern environment -- use that time to learn about the things you need to be safe in the overhead -- not how to kick without silting up everything!
 
I haven't taken GUE-f, and I've got my basic cave and cavern cards, but I still plan to take it. Everyone who takes it, recommends it.
 
One of the most interesting things about GUE-F classes is something that hardly anyone mentions when discussing the class. I am part way down the GUE instructor path and one GUE instructor I mentored with tells his classes that the most important thing they will learn is to understand where exactly they are in terms of diving skill. You can't really plan to get anywhere unless you know where you plan to leave from. GUE-F provides very clear standards for you to apply against your own skills. It doesn't matter whether you pass or fail the course; the truly important thing you will have learned is where exactly you are in terms of your skill set. From there, you can start to move forward. GUE clearly states an objective standard and you measure yourself against it during the course. Then you can see where you are in the bigger scheme of things and formulate a plan to move ahead. Of three students in the class, most likely, each will be at different spots on the same journey. There has been a lot of discussion regarding the pros and cons of making the course a pass/fail versus a workshop. My view of this is that hopefully most students who make the extra effort to attend a GUE course are mature enough to see that there is value in the course, regardless of the whole pass/fail vs. workshop debate. Find out where you are in terms of your skills, formulate a plan to get to where you want to go, and hit the water.
 

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