Why are primary lights so expensive?

[Caveeagle]

I suspect dive lights have become expensive because "divers" used to be fairly "Can do !" guys who actually made, maintained, and published guides for others. 20-30 years ago, DIY HID lights were a big thing before LEDs became bright enough and cheap enough for anything.

There has always been a strong DIY element to Tech Diving. It was starting to become uncommon in the early 90's. My buddy at the time dove with a DIY wing/BC made from an inner tube and PVC mated to a salvaged inflator. I don't remember many DIY HID lights as most I knew were still diving halogen back then.

...People making their own lights for demanding dives...wonder how many divers do this?

Richard.

They are still out there!...
>>>candle power forums<<<
Dive Lighting

 

[Steelyeyes]

So, why are primary lights so damn expensive anyway?

 

[Bennno]

So, why are primary lights so damn expensive anyway?

Tbone pretty much summed it up on the first page.

 

[Bobby]

For those that have not read the entire thread. People asked for a dive light manufacturer to respond, which we have earlier in the thread. As new questions come up we have continued to add to the thread. We are commenting specifically about our products and how we do things.

I started with DIY. Before manufacturing lights I retro fitted other lights with current & better components, before that I made a lot of things DIY. When we started making lights I put that knowledge and experience into our production light design. We learned a lot that first year from the diverse range of divers that bought our lights. Here are just a few examples.

• The wiring to the battery connectors was a little light for how some divers used their lights. The first prototype we built is still going strong without any damage to the wires, however we replaced every single unit that had issues under warranty with a more robust wire setup.

• We also used a generic clip to hold our light head on the handle. For me it was important that the light head snapped in and out of a clip to allow for easy setup change. When we went into production some people found the clips were easy to break, so we designed our own more robust clip that has not had a single failure and replaced all of the old clips under warranty.

• Everything we have built has an upgrade path to our current technology. It is something that we consider as a major point when developing a new design or improvement. It costs less and is easier to simply sell a new light however we work hard to support our customers that have invested in our products.

• Technology and regulations have changed over the last 30 years and even more so in the last 3 years. The best battery technology must be certified in its configuration to be safe when selling it commercially and to take it on commercial airplanes. It is an expensive, complicated, & difficult process to obtain the certification.

• Our switches are custom made for the more demanding environment of technical diving along with all the other innovations and custom components we use. All of this takes time and money to implement.

• We do now and will continue to innovate from the lessons learned from thousands of people using our lights. I still do a lot of DIY projects however I'll never learn as much or be able to make better products anywhere near the level of what I learn and can do making products for so many others.

In the past I serviced my own regulators which at last count was just under 30 between me and Dr. X. I'm too busy today and pay someone that does it full time because they do a better job in less time than I can do it myself. If someone has the time to do anything DIY and is willing to take on the task and risk then go for it. When I do get time to dive now the last thing I want to do is have to work on gear. It is the nature of being in the dive business full time, at least for me.

 

[lucca brassi]

Bobby in what type connection you are or was with Damien Siviero ?

 

[tbone1004]

in case bobby doesn't get on here. They are good friends and Damien is associated with the UWLD Dealer and Service Center in Australia, St. George Underwater

 

[geoff w]

....

• We do now and will continue to innovate from the lessons learned from thousands of people using our lights. I still do a lot of DIY projects however I'll never learn as much or be able to make better products anywhere near the level of what I learn and can do making products for so many others...

Speaking of innovation and UWLD, it seems one of the big costs of primary lights is the external can, and not needed for a lot of diving. Even John Chatterton wrote "I do not use canister lights, because they are too big and complicated for me and the diving I do." in the Lights tab at Dive Locker | Shadow Diver | John Chatterton For those of us who don't want / need the cost and complexity of a can light, do you have any more cost effective but still blazingly bright with great burntime standalone lights UWLD is known for in the works we could be looking out for?

 

[lowviz]

...//... We are commenting specifically about our products and how we do things.
Technology and regulations have changed over the last 30 years and even more so in the last 3 years. The best battery technology must be certified in its configuration to be safe when selling it commercially and to take it on commercial airplanes. It is an expensive, complicated, & difficult process to obtain the certification. ...//...

Bobby, just for the record, I'm totally and solidly sympathetic to the problems you face. I come from the same field. You are shooting at two moving targets at the same time: LED and battery technology. Your best effort in employing either device will likely be eclipsed by the next advancement. For the interested reader:

The amazing progress of LEDs, in one chart
Future batteries, coming soon: charge in seconds, last months and power over the air - Pocket-lint

...//... Speaking of innovation and UWLD, it seems one of the big costs of primary lights is the external can, and not needed for a lot of diving. ...//... For those of us who don't want / need the cost and complexity of a can light, do you have any more cost effective but still blazingly bright with great burntime standalone lights UWLD is known for in the works we could be looking out for?

It is all about watts and the total energy that you carry in your batteries. What you are asking for comes from either more efficient LED's or higher energy density batteries, or both...

The best time to buy a dive light is always "tomorrow". But then UWLD can't feed his design effort that way. Subsidize what you want more of. I'm getting ready to buy and it won't be a cheap ripoff...

 

[The Chairman]

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[Bobby]

Speaking of innovation and UWLD, it seems one of the big costs of primary lights is the external can, and not needed for a lot of diving. Even John Chatterton wrote "I do not use canister lights, because they are too big and complicated for me and the diving I do." in the Lights tab at Dive Locker | Shadow Diver | John Chatterton For those of us who don't want / need the cost and complexity of a can light, do you have any more cost effective but still blazingly bright with great burntime standalone lights UWLD is known for in the works we could be looking out for?

Geoff,
My apologies for not replying, I just got back from a trip and had not seen your post. There are plenty of inexpensive fairly strong output backup lights on the market. Presently we don't have any plans to make an all in one primary. The cost & weight are too high in relation to the light output and burn time possibilities IMHO. This subject alone can start an entirely new thread. I've looked at what it would take to do it to our standards and it just wouldn't be profitable for us. It is the same with back up lights. We don't make them because not enough people would spend the money for what ours would cost.

The external can is not so much of an expense compared to an attached canister. The cost of the batteries and other components directly relates to burn time and functionality. Less batteries = less burn time for the same light output. Our lowest output light is also our lowest seller. Even our higher output video light, out sells our lower output one. It is the same with the batteries. The largest battery canister out sells the two smaller canisters combined.