Why are jetfins so good?

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NWGratefulDiver:
That's why God created Turtles ... :D

Boy you aren't kidding. I needed new fins to fit the Bare Trek boots that go with my new drysuit. I was planning on getting Jets. Well, the XL Jets were too small. Similar fit really to my L DiveRite fins. Actually probably a bit smaller. Then I tried on the XXL Jets. Goodness gracious. You could probably park a Prius in those things. They are HUGE! Luckily, the LDS also had Turtles. They fit me perfectly, right smack dab between the XL and XXL Jets. I'm not sure if ScubaPro realizes how many sales they're losing to the Turtles by not having something in between the XL and XXL Jets.
 
The funniest thing i know is that Scubapro jets, DO NOT fit size 8-10 Scubapro dry suits :/
 
Divin'Hoosier:
Boy you aren't kidding. I needed new fins to fit the Bare Trek boots that go with my new drysuit. I was planning on getting Jets. Well, the XL Jets were too small. Similar fit really to my L DiveRite fins. Actually probably a bit smaller. Then I tried on the XXL Jets. Goodness gracious. You could probably park a Prius in those things. They are HUGE! Luckily, the LDS also had Turtles. They fit me perfectly, right smack dab between the XL and XXL Jets. I'm not sure if ScubaPro realizes how many sales they're losing to the Turtles by not having something in between the XL and XXL Jets.
They're blithering idiots if they haven't gotten the message after all these years. I suspect someone made a conscious decision not to bother tooling up for that size. No idea why.
 
CompuDude:
They're blithering idiots if they haven't gotten the message after all these years. I suspect someone made a conscious decision not to bother tooling up for that size. No idea why.

The latest ScubaPro creation compensated for dry suit boots. I had the same issue. L for wet suit and XL for my size 10 Bare boots. If I was to purchase the latest fin from SB I would wear a medium wet and a large dry. They basically stepped down one size. I kicked a set in the pool last; they are not worth the upgrade in IMO. I tried them against the original and a set of Atomic fins. The atomics outperformed them in comfort, ease of kick and power. The only area SB won was cost! $219.00 Ouch!:11: I do give kudos to the original Jetfins. Over 100 dives on them and I still love them.
:monkeydan
 
Guy who certified me is also a close friend of Bob and has been using FFs for years, almost since they came out. He uses them for everthing from simple rec diving in Nebraska to Caves in Florida. Last time I was in the shop he had a set of those same fins hanging on the wall. Supposedly only a handful were made and they cost about $10k to make, but I understand they don't kick worth a darn. He insists that the original FF is still the best. I asked about Pros, but he didn't want to sell me a pair.
 
Below are a few pics of a size large IDI Power Fin Frogfoot Model (now XS Scuba Frog Foot Fin) and an XL Force Fin Pro:

frog_ff1.jpg


frog_ff2.jpg


In addition to being longer, the frogfoot also has thick sides (like jets) and ridges which make the blade stiff and create channels to scoop and channel water when you kick. Of course each (fluttler) kick takes a lot more effort than with the short, flexible force fin blades, but since you presumably get more umpf from each kick with the larger, stiffer blade you should be able to kick less frequently, or kick and glide, so it may take less energy overall. I guess the right balance between size and stiffness may vary by person.

Because the FF's designed for flutter kicking I found this comment interesting from someone who was doing fin tests and sought experienced FF users to make sure the test was fair. His comment:

I tracked down two such divers, but one was traveling in Alaska and unavailable at the time. Thus, I was only able to get one (identified as diver "z" in the speed data, an instructor with over 2,700 dives, mostly with FFs) to run the tests to date. He did excellent with the FFs (using the Tan Delta model). When moving at normal diving speeds, he used a kick style, sort of a modified frog kick with a twist at the end (which I've also observed among a couple of dive masters in the tropics) that appeared very efficient and required only about one kick to five or six of my normal flutter kicks. I was unable to duplicate that kick even after watching and trying it for much of one of our dives together.

When moving faster, for maximum speed, he switched to a regular flutter kick. He was able to get better speed from the FFs than from the other fins that he tried, better speeds than the other divers got with the FFs (original model), and right up there with the top speeds (but not the very top) that anyone got with any of the fins. I was able to get good speed myself with his ff-td, but not quite as fast as I could get with the ap-blu. I have to conclude that I'm missing something in Force Fins and still don't understand them. They might have a learning curve not found with most other fins. Force Fins may be very fast and efficient if used properly by some people. I'm hoping to also run further tests by other experienced users of Force Fins.

So it seems that with the more rigid FF models at least you can still do some sort of alternate kicks and glides. But for the frog kick you use the bottom of the fin blade, and the original, pro or tan delta of the original force fins just don't look like they be good for that (blade curled up, no channels):

frog_ff3.jpg


frog_ff4.jpg


The Tan Delta Excellerating Fin looks flatter and has a bit of a channel at the bottom, and the tan delta material is supposed to be stiff, so maybe that could be good for frog kicking but then again at $629 they are not a practical choice for most people (maybe that's what the tester above was using):

excellerating1.jpg


Anyway, my guess would be that jets and similar fins are so good because they are have flat blades with channels at the bottom so they are good for scooping and channeling water the way you do with frog and modified frog kicks, and the blade is relatively rigid because of the thick sides and ridges, but still flexible enough because of the rubber compound to have some amount of snap. Not sure if the weight is a bonus or not, I think it could go either way...
 
Soggy:
... Even if you choose not to continue with the DIR philosophy afterwards, I can guarantee you that DIRF will be one of the best classes you ever take....
well, I just enrolled yesterday for the Feb 23 class. Does this guarantee mean money back if it isnt one of the best classes I ever take? (not like there is tough competition, OW was good, but AOW or EAN were nothing to brag about.) If it is a money back guarantee do I have to take a polygraph to prove my disapproval? Cause if the guarantee is money back, I can guarantee you I will say it wasnt and isnt the best course I have ever taken.
 
GIFFMANN:
He insists that the original FF is still the best. I asked about Pros, but he didn't want to sell me a pair.

I would guess it depends on what kick you use. According to "Navy study" up on forcefin.com the original model beat the pro model in terms of air consumption: http://www.forcefin.com/FF_PAGES/navy.htm

"A further conclusion is that the amateur Force fin, which is more flexible, required less energy for all speeds than the professional fin, which is more rigid. The observation that a more flexible fin may require less energy than a more rigid fin confirms what we observed with other fin manufacturers."

navy_graph.gif


I assume that's with the flutter kick.
 
I've always wondered what fins were Fin A and Fin F
 
GIFFMANN:
I've always wondered what fins were Fin A and Fin F

I'm guessing Apollo bio-fins were one of the two since they have always tested at the top on everyone else's tests and Fin A and Fin F were supposed to be the previous bests.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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