Who here has done a real life CESA and what was your experience?

[InTheDrink]

FWIW, pg. 158/9 of PADI OW discusses 5 different strategies for 'running low on or out of air'.

No. 3 is controlled swimming ascent, for which it says, to paraphrase, if you're out of air and no-one near enough, and the water is 20ft - 30ft deep or less, you may decide to make a controlled emergency swimming ascent'

No. 4 discusses buddy breathing and says 'if you're deeper than 40ft and there's no alternate air source available, buddy breathing may be an option...'

No 5. Buoyant emergency ascent doesn't specifically mention a particular depth, it says: 'you're too deep for a controlled emergency swimming ascent...'

So I would say that by inference, PADI are suggesting 9m/30ft as the maximum depth to do a Controlled Ascent ergo deeper than that they suggest a buoyant ascent. That's certainly the reading I took from it.

J

 

[katdiver]

Sure the depths I use for my students during training are set down in standards, but I say the CESA is viable from much greater depths. I suggest that after certification they might want to practice their new skill as they require. They may then want to try from more depth as they progress and get more comfortable. They learn during training that the skill works, that builds confidence to progress. CESA is always a better option than a buoyant ascent.

 

[pittyyofool]

I have had to do 2.5 in my short 14 years in diving.
The first was about 8 years ago. I was using my old favorite POS of a reg. (Sherwood Brut from the early 90's) that reg has a threaded plastic ring around the outside that holds everything together. Long story short I set my tank on my 2nd stage. On inspection the reg looked fine, but it was not, there must have been a small crack that got worse with breathing. About 20 minutes in to the dive at 45fsw the regulator fell apart (diaphragm and front cover came off) and I inhaled a mouth full of water. The good thing about this you cough out the very last of your air so there is no worry of a embolism. I free dive a lot so i am use to making 50fsw assents with 0 air in my lungs, so i think that helped me keep calm. I do not carry an octopus with me on open water dives so I canÃÕ use that. I preceded it swim for the surface fast at maybe 80fpm. I did this fast because there was no air in my lungs and I knew there was no chance for more air. At about 10-15fsw I started to get shallow water black out so I pushed the magic elevator (inflate) button on my bc. When I reached the surface air never felt so good. I finished inflating my bc and relaxed.
Looking back on the situation I should have just stuck my fingers in to my 2nd stage and pushed down the demand valve lever and made my reg free flow.

The second was in October 2008 I was doing some under water work. I finished what needed to be done and arrived at the surface at sunset with 400psi in my tank perfect. A few minutes later the crew started to winch up what I had been working on (weighs about 150lbs negative) they had pulled about 5-10ft of line before it fouled kinked and snapped. I knew then I was going to have to go back down to 55-60ft and retrieve it. So I garbed the new end of the winch line a crescent wrench and a hand full of cable clamps. I jumped in the water and found the load immediately, which was nice. Since it had fallen I had to re arrange all of the straps and re secure some stuff. Then I ran the wench cable threw the strap eye folded it over and stated putting on cable clamps. I got 2 on and half way the 3rd it got really hard to breath. "Crap I sucked it dry." I knew it was going to happen I was just waiting for it, so it was no surprise. So I started my CESA in 60fsw and ascended at about 40fpm. At 30fsw I pulled another breath out of the tank and a half breathe at 15fsw. I made it to the surface and we lifted the load.

Now the .5 CESA that doesn't count.
My brother and I are wired... turning off each others air underwater is a normal thing, along with various other pranks... about 5 years ago I was diving with him. Towards the end of the dive in 20 ft of water he came up behind me and cut the LP hose to my 2nd stage and then waved the gardening clippers in front of my face. I knew what he had done, A$$.. I had the option of buddy breathing and going to the surface, but I saw it much more fit to steal his mask and do a CESA.

 

[asimpkinsjr]

My experience in the navy with CESAs in submarine school is that they where taught however they where so high risk that eventually the navy stopped actually teaching anything but theory...for a while there was a dive tank that was some 100 or so feet high and one would enter the bottom and do a CESA to teach submarine escape training however the navy disbanded the practice due to a high rate of blown lung training accidents.

As a former submariner I believe in prepping for worst case scenario, as an example I routinely run 2 GPSs and radar on my boats....one thing I learned was redundancy...however I also note that during my dive sessions on a practice day one of my instructors saw me practicing CESAs and kinda in so many words said "we dont do CESAs..."

Now why do I think their important?....well I had an experience during my dive lessons where in the 14 foot section of the pool while we where doing buddy breathing exercises my instructor had not mentioned that he had his safe second on a lanyard...something that must have been done after we entered the pool...and during the exercise the difficulty of getting his reg of the lanyard combined with the bubbles of his reg and not being able to see right side up on his safe second combined with panic caused me to shoot for the surface....that alone taught me that sometimes buddy diving doesnt serve the intended purpose so dont become too reliant on that...but it also taught me the need to understand how to attempt a CESA.

 

[Thalassamania]

In the science community we train Buoyant Ascents. Everyone of our students must do on the order of 100 from 13 feet as part of learning the skin diving, scuba, and buddy breathing doff and dons. Similarly they do on the order of ten from 20 feet in open water. All that I can tell you is that whilst the history of ascent training in the sports community was rather poor and there was some real reason to pull back from it; in the science community we have never had a training course embolism or fatality for any reason for that matter. While I think such training is important, the more I consider the issues, the more I fear that most sports divers are ill prepared to engage in such training either by themselves or with leadership assistance. Whilst I know this is a change from an earlier post, I really do know quite what to advise.

In answer to the OP: I have never had to do a CESA in a real emergency, but for my depth quals I've had to demonstrate the ability to do one from as deep as 150 feet.

 

[InTheDrink]

Thanks everyone who responded. It's been a journey.

When I kicked off this thread my understanding was that beyond 9m a buoyant ascent was required. My feeling for what I would do now has changed immeasurably - mainly throught the responses and experiences put forward here.

It's also been entertaining - some of you have pulled off some pretty crazy stunts. And lived to tell the tale. Which is nice.

In terms of practise, I am leaning towards simulation (horizontal) rather than real. I think it misses some important aspects but the overall cost/benefit supports simulation rather than performing for real.

Thanks again everyone who responded.

J

 

[Thalassamania]

Oh ... one thing more, for deeper emergency ascents I use an "air siphon," something I have discussed before. Each BC is a little different so you will need to experiment and practice if you want this in your bag of tricks. It can result in a highly controllable buoyant emergency ascent, kinda the best of both worlds:

Start kicking up. When your BC has expanded enough to keep you moving, relax and let it carry you upward. Hold the oral inflator hose as far down (deep) as you are able and keep the oral inflation button OPEN. Continue to keep the oral inflator button open and move the hose up until air starts to trickle out of the oral inflation mouthpiece, then lower it till it just stops. You now have an air siphon from your BC or BP/W that you can use to control your ascent or descent rate with amazing precision. Just remember to keep the oral inflator OPEN ALL THE TIME. THIS TECHNIQUE REQUIRES PRACTICE - try it on some normal ascents first!

 

[Paul Lenharr]

Excellent thread! I was certified in 2004 and have since moved up to rescue diver / dive rescue international I. On my own, I decided to work on my solo diving. I bought a pony bottle and decided to find out how long I could last on a pony @ 60ft. I breathed down the pony and then moved to my main bottle. Easily I figured out that at 60ft, I could last 10 minutes on a pony. I have since realized that in no point should I "rely" on my pony. Recently, I worked on my CESA at the local quarry "Lake Rawlings". I performed a CESA from 60ft several times. Each time I timed my response and worked up my SAC. This has since enforced my confidence in case I come across an emergency, I will be prepared. Practice, practice, practice. Do it often, and when it occurs, it won't be a surprise. Excellent thread, and worth reading all the post's. Thanks for all the information guys / galls.

 

[W8less]

Early 80's Moorea French Polynesia 70' oceanside reef. Gear was French "la spirotechnique" Tank valves were sonic reserves that would "honk" at 700 - 800 psi and then transfer automatically to the remainder of the gas, it did have a manual back up valve. Tank honked no air, flip manual valve, no air. Crystal clear water, buddy 20/30' away. I liked my chances going up. Took my time no problem. Lived in the islands and routinely deep free dived. I still periodically U/W swim the length of a 25 meter pool, (no mask/fins) You just never know!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dktexas54]

here goes! hope you flamers are kind. I have a private pilots lic. single engine land. cessnas etc. I would never fly over open water were i could not glide back to land in an emergency. just my rule. Some people have flown across the ocean on one engine. I figure thats their business. On to scuba. I would never dive where i could not have air to get to the surface. I am not a multi thousand hour, been everywhere, done that diver. just a father, grandfather etc, get the picture. Diving is purely recreational too me. For FUN!!! Not trying to impress anyone. Diving relaxes me. Ok. I have made it a rule that any dives below 60' I use my spare air (3.0cuft) attached to my right wing. can be reached very easily and offers no drag. my dive limit is 100' with 40-60 being my favorite. I learned to dive in florida back in the late 60's and just 2 years ago went through the whole certification process and now have my padi rescue. yea.! I believe all new divers should be taught to carry a redundant air system below 60'. OK, I can here many of you screaming at me now. Easy. how many people below 60' in a panic cannot do a cesa and make the surface? don't know but i would think quite a few. especially grandpas and grandmas!! Just kidding. i am sure there are many well conditioned men and women who could cesa from 60-80' if everything went perfect. How many resort dives are really solo dives? were's my buddy? oh! he just swam away! why should Padi or any certifying group not promote and train and make it mandatory like an octo? maybe i could swim over to my buddy with my spare air and rap my buddy on the head for his octo! If I take a deep breath from my spare air, can I not blow bubbles while accending, and then if i have to breath, take another? if new divers were trained this way, wonder how many people would be alive today. Just my opinion. and in closing. for all of you who will say that a small emergency air system like a spare air, o2 etc doesn't have enough air, think of the person at 90' having to do a cesa with no air at all and no buddy around. think he would like one!
you betcha! many of us carry redundant systems. lets push the organizations to utilize the new technology and make diving safer for all.

Have a good day!

dktexas54