White's Fusion Question

[mahjong]

I'm just curious about this popular suit: With say the tec skin (thin neoprene), is the suit easy to don if wearing a thick 400g thinsulate undergarment? It is my understanding that the outer skin offers not only protection but also a snug fit. If this is the case, I'm wondering if it might be difficult to get into the suit wearing a thick undergarment.

Also, how does having two layers affect the post-dive rinsing/cleaning process? Can you rinse thoroughly between the two layers without taking the suit completely apart after each dive (I simply hose down my suits)?

A couple questions for those who dive the suit.

 

[Peter_C]

I have a Fusion Tech Skin LE, and wear DUI 400g undies and booties with a thick pair of socks and a base layer made up of fleece sweat pants and a fleece sweat shirt. Very thick undergarments, but I run cold and tend to not move much. I am 160 lbs standing 5'10", and wear a Large Fusion with medium sized undies. The feet are a pain to get on and I do the roll it down to the knees and pull the suit on from the inside. The top goes pretty easy. Removal is another story. I have learned to pull my undies out from my booties before even trying to remove the bulk. Often my booties come off which I am good with. Takes a little more effort than I would like getting it back off. I have heard many people use Sailkote on the older versions, but have been considering using it to ease up on donning and doffing on my later model. I will say it fits "cave cut" which I like. Pretty much impossible for my legs to over inflate, and my Chuck Taylors never feel like they are going to fall off. With the bulk in my shoes I am firmly connected to my fins. Any less, like thinner socks, on my feet and the fins feel loose, let alone the fact my feet get cold.

What are you planning on for pockets?

My next suit will be a DUI TLS350 or thereof the equivalent.

As to washing, I am a dipper and it is one of the last things to go into a bin I use for washing all my gear. I put my dry gloves back on and squeeze the latex neck seal closed and under it goes. Then I hang it to dry outside for a little while, eventually moving it into our second bathroom bath tube where I put a shower curtain up over the middle of the tub. I have a Hangair I use every time, but only turn it on about 1 out of 5 times mostly when the suit is soaking wet from sweat on the inside.

 

[mahjong]

Thanks, Peter!

According to the Fusion size chart, there is only a L/XL, which I assume is what you wear. You are on the lowest end of the measurements for this size, which might be why you can wear such a thick set of undergarments. Diving Monterey/Lobos, I wear a DUI 400g Thin Ultra undergarment in a TLS350. As a base layer I wear Under Armour cold gear top and bottom--rather thin, at least compared to what you wear. I cannot imagine getting cold in these undergarments, though, and I am the biggest wimp around when it comes to cold. You must be roasting, unless you dive double 120's and spend 3 hours underwater up there in the north (I dive double 72's, but my buddy dives large singles so we don't quite make 1 hour).

All in all, it does sound like the Fusion system is not the easiest to manage for those who need very thick undergarments. And as for rinsing, I am not a dipper, so it sounds like I would need to dismantle the unit in order to get a good rinse with a hose.

Oh, I have one large DUI pocket on my TLS350--I usually clip down the sheath of my shears to the internal SS D-ring and also slip a UK dive light into the pocket--and sometimes also a surface signalling device (that would need to be installed to my BC LP inflator if needed). This is enough for me.

I have a Fusion Tech Skin LE, and wear DUI 400g undies and booties with a thick pair of socks and a base layer made up of fleece sweat pants and a fleece sweat shirt. Very thick undergarments, but I run cold and tend to not move much. I am 160 lbs standing 5'10", and wear a Large Fusion with medium sized undies. The feet are a pain to get on and I do the roll it down to the knees and pull the suit on from the inside. The top goes pretty easy. Removal is another story. I have learned to pull my undies out from my booties before even trying to remove the bulk. Often my booties come off which I am good with. Takes a little more effort than I would like getting it back off. I have heard many people use Sailkote on the older versions, but have been considering using it to ease up on donning and doffing on my later model. I will say it fits "cave cut" which I like. Pretty much impossible for my legs to over inflate, and my Chuck Taylors never feel like they are going to fall off. With the bulk in my shoes I am firmly connected to my fins. Any less, like thinner socks, on my feet and the fins feel loose, let alone the fact my feet get cold.

What are you planning on for pockets?

My next suit will be a DUI TLS350 or thereof the equivalent.

As to washing, I am a dipper and it is one of the last things to go into a bin I use for washing all my gear. I put my dry gloves back on and squeeze the latex neck seal closed and under it goes. Then I hang it to dry outside for a little while, eventually moving it into our second bathroom bath tube where I put a shower curtain up over the middle of the tub. I have a Hangair I use every time, but only turn it on about 1 out of 5 times mostly when the suit is soaking wet from sweat on the inside.

 

[merxlin]

I just hose rinse mine thoroughly (while hanging), being careful not to run the hose down the neck. Occassionally after it is dry I turn it inside out and wipe down the inside. I always hang it to dry. Seems to work fine.

 

[TSandM]

I have used the Fusion dry core with all three skins, and with thick and thin undergarments.

Washing is a pain with the Bullet, because there is no part of the skin that is permeable to water. You have to release some of the Velcro to get water between the skin and suit, and it's a nuisance. The Tech skin, on the other hand, has large areas of Lycra that admit water. I have not needed to take the suit apart at all to get enough water on the skin to prevent salt crystal formation. With the Sport skin, it's obviously not an issue at all.

Getting into it . . . well, it's trivial with thin undergarments, like I use in Mexico. It's not at all bad with the Halo, which is quite closely cut. It's a bit more of a hassle with the Mk3, which would be similar to a 400g undergarment. Thick legs are the problem -- thickness around the torso is not an issue. Arms can be a bit of work as well. It's a matter of figuring out the sequence -- I need to put my legs into the pulled up legs (as Mike shows on the DRIS video) and then bend over and pull suit and skin up as far as possible before going any further. It's the same with the arms. And keeping the dry core clean and sprayed with SailKote helps a ton, too.

The payback is fantastic, though. The mobility of the suit is fantastic, even with the Tech skin. It's light, it dries fast, and it packs easily. I've dived laminate, compressed neo and the Fusion, and the Fusion still has my approval, hands down.

 

[mahjong]

Thanks, TSandM.

Are you saying the fusion is superior to compressed neo? I also dive a DUI CF200SE. I love it, except that it is a tad snug on me, so I can only wear it in CA on shorter dives when thinner undergarments are enough. I tend only to dive it when I'm diving my single LP95's and single LP72's, as I am not sure I can reach the valves easily diving doubles--but if the suit fit me properly I suspect this would not be an issue. It might be less ideal for travel than shell suits (it's heavier and takes much longer to dry), but I am not sure how it might compare to the Fusion with the Tech skin (thin neoprene). Wouldn't the thin neoprene skin on the Tech Fusion also take some time to dry?

I'm guessing you remain positive on the Fusion because, despite any inconveniences in donning and rinsing, you get snug fit PLUS flexibility?

I have used the Fusion dry core with all three skins, and with thick and thin undergarments.

Washing is a pain with the Bullet, because there is no part of the skin that is permeable to water. You have to release some of the Velcro to get water between the skin and suit, and it's a nuisance. The Tech skin, on the other hand, has large areas of Lycra that admit water. I have not needed to take the suit apart at all to get enough water on the skin to prevent salt crystal formation. With the Sport skin, it's obviously not an issue at all.

Getting into it . . . well, it's trivial with thin undergarments, like I use in Mexico. It's not at all bad with the Halo, which is quite closely cut. It's a bit more of a hassle with the Mk3, which would be similar to a 400g undergarment. Thick legs are the problem -- thickness around the torso is not an issue. Arms can be a bit of work as well. It's a matter of figuring out the sequence -- I need to put my legs into the pulled up legs (as Mike shows on the DRIS video) and then bend over and pull suit and skin up as far as possible before going any further. It's the same with the arms. And keeping the dry core clean and sprayed with SailKote helps a ton, too.

The payback is fantastic, though. The mobility of the suit is fantastic, even with the Tech skin. It's light, it dries fast, and it packs easily. I've dived laminate, compressed neo and the Fusion, and the Fusion still has my approval, hands down.

 

[Peter_C]

As a base layer I wear Under Armour cold gear top and bottom--rather thin, at least compared to what you wear. I cannot imagine getting cold in these undergarments, though, and I am the biggest wimp around when it comes to cold.

The fleece I wear isn't really that thick. Probably the equivalent of 100gm. I guess I get the second biggest wimp award next to my 100lb g/f. She started wearing a drysuit during the pool part of OW. Of course the pool was 52 degrees. Also for shore diving I prefer to use a scooter, so we can get out further with minimum effort. That chills you down pretty quick. The real issue is sweating at the surface before getting into the water.

You must be roasting, unless you dive double 120's and spend 3 hours underwater up there in the north (I dive double 72's, but my buddy dives large singles so we don't quite make 1 hour).

I kinda dive something close to double 120's but really they are double HP100's pumped up. My single tanks are HP130's. We do a fair amount of boat diving both up North, and in Monterey/Carmel, and we usually shoot for a minimum run time of one hour. Often I can get two dives out of my HP130's depending on the depth of the dives.

All in all, it does sound like the Fusion system is not the easiest to manage for those who need very thick undergarments. And as for rinsing, I am not a dipper, so it sounds like I would need to dismantle the unit in order to get a good rinse with a hose.

I rinse my drysuit with a hose at places like Lobos *shrugs* Why not become a dipper too? Probably uses less water.

Oh, I have one large DUI pocket on my TLS350--I usually clip down the sheath of my shears to the internal SS D-ring and also slip a UK dive light into the pocket--and sometimes also a surface signalling device (that would need to be installed to my BC LP inflator if needed). This is enough for me.

Just why do you want to replace the TLS350 (Worn out?)? There were many things I liked about my Trilam, but of course there were many things I liked about my CF200, which is now my backup suit. Two pockets on your drysuit would be ideal. Gives you plenty of room to store safety gear and other items. Most folks I dive with use a bungee cord tied inside their pockets to clip stuff off to, typically using stainless bolt snaps or more commonly double enders. I would also recommend always carrying a SMB for California diving. A spool for underwater launching of the SMB is even better. You never know when you are going to have to surface on the outside of the BW wall or somewhere else in a boating area. Popping up in the sand channel at Lobos is not the best idea either without some warning to boats passing thru. If the SMB you have doesn't fit well in your pocket maybe you need a smaller SMB. Shears are my goto tools for cutting most everything that needs cutting. After all you never know when you are going to rescue a decorator crab caught in fishing line, or maybe a GW shark caught on something.

 

[mahjong]

Don't wish to replace my TLS350, even though it is getting old. Recently I've been a bit wet in spots after dives, so a leak test might be in order, but I just shrug at the leaks wearing the 400g Thin Ultra jumpsuit--can't feel anything but warmth in that baby.

I'm thinking of replacing my CF200, sigh, if only because of the snug fit. I've really come to enjoy the comfort of diving thick thinsulate, and I cannot dive the CF200 in anything other than Powerstretch fleece. I recently dove my CF200 with an Under Armour cold gear base (top and bottom), a thin Aeroskin fleece-lined jumpsuit, DUI's thickest Polartec Powerstretch jumpsuit, DUI fleece vest, plus a thin polyfill vest over that. My core was warm enough, but I felt the cold in my arms and a bit in my legs. My buddy dives a CLX450 trilam with a t-shirt plus a DUI Actionwear jumpsuit--that's it--and he's fine. My punishment for spending 2-3 hours/day in the gym keeping any trace of fat at bay and building up muscle.

I've been seeing some great deals on the Fusion, which is why I asked about it. A guy I dive with once a couple months back wears one and highly recommended it. Also, the sizing seems like it might work well for me. I'm a size small in height and waist, but fill out a medium in the shoulders and legs. My TLS350 is custom cut. My CF200 is a stock small, which is why it's snug (I can wear it at all only because it stretches.) The SM/MED sized fusion seems like it might fit nicely, but I don't know how it might accommodate 400g of thinsulate.

The fleece I wear isn't really that thick. Probably the equivalent of 100gm. I guess I get the second biggest wimp award next to my 100lb g/f. She started wearing a drysuit during the pool part of OW. Of course the pool was 52 degrees. Also for shore diving I prefer to use a scooter, so we can get out further with minimum effort. That chills you down pretty quick. The real issue is sweating at the surface before getting into the water.


I kinda dive something close to double 120's but really they are double HP100's pumped up. My single tanks are HP130's. We do a fair amount of boat diving both up North, and in Monterey/Carmel, and we usually shoot for a minimum run time of one hour. Often I can get two dives out of my HP130's depending on the depth of the dives.


I rinse my drysuit with a hose at places like Lobos *shrugs* Why not become a dipper too? Probably uses less water.


Just why do you want to replace the TLS350 (Worn out?)? There were many things I liked about my Trilam, but of course there were many things I liked about my CF200, which is now my backup suit. Two pockets on your drysuit would be ideal. Gives you plenty of room to store safety gear and other items. Most folks I dive with use a bungee cord tied inside their pockets to clip stuff off to, typically using stainless bolt snaps or more commonly double enders. I would also recommend always carrying a SMB for California diving. A spool for underwater launching of the SMB is even better. You never know when you are going to have to surface on the outside of the BW wall or somewhere else in a boating area. Popping up in the sand channel at Lobos is not the best idea either without some warning to boats passing thru. If the SMB you have doesn't fit well in your pocket maybe you need a smaller SMB. Shears are my goto tools for cutting most everything that needs cutting. After all you never know when you are going to rescue a decorator crab caught in fishing line, or maybe a GW shark caught on something.

 

[TSandM]

I think the two things that sold me on the Fusion in the beginning and still keep me very positive about it were the lack of need for a custom cut, and the mobility. Of course, in the last four years, I've also found that it's extremely hard to damage, and it's the lightness of the suit that has eventually made me a dry suit diver in all places and water temperatures.

If you are at ALL on the line between S/M and L/XL, buy the latter. I can wear Peter's L/XL quite easily (it was for a long time my backup suit!) and there is a bit more room in the arms and legs for thick insulation.

If you have the new DUI 400g, I don't think you'll have a problem at all. If you have the old one, with the very thick, untapered legs, it may be a bit more of an issue.

 

[Peter_C]

Don't wish to replace my TLS350, even though it is getting old. Recently I've been a bit wet in spots after dives, so a leak test might be in order, but I just shrug at the leaks wearing the 400g Thin Ultra jumpsuit--can't feel anything but warmth in that baby.

Sounds like you need a little DIY action to fix your suit. I found an empty plastic food tub from Costco fits perfect into the neck. The dry gloves go back onto the suit, of course bottles do work. Anything slipped into the latex seals gets a quick zip tie in place to make sure it stays there. Then grab an inflator hose put it on and I use my regular air compressor to fill it up holding the air gun against the inflator hose as I push the inflator button. Some soapy water in a sprayer and a little bit of time usually reveals the leaks. Just look for a lot of tiny tiny bubbles forming at the surface. Some people use a flashlight in a dark room. Others fill the suit with water and let it come out the holes from the inside out. Whichever method gets the leak found is all that matters. Once found a little Aquaseal and maybe a patch are needed. Of course it is possible the suit could require a new zipper.