Which tables should you believe?

[Mako Mark]

Actually, I believe most of the tables were developed by actual testing - so they are basically the opposite of theoretical, they are imperical.:

this is how it goes. Some guy that is smarter than you or I put together writes down on the back of an envelope a new logarithm, or a modification of an old one, then takes a group of divers diving to TEST his theory.

This is a theoretical table, because it is based on a theory.

An Impirical table would be:

some guy that is smarter than you or I collects the data from millions of dives and from them creates a table. As far as I know no-one has completed a table like this, and DAN is the only group that have attempted it, I believe that their impirical table is not finished yet. Someone may be able to enlighten us on that though.

 

[glbirch]

Does anyone know if/where you can download the DCIEM tables? I'd like to see them.

Not sure if you can view or download them anywhere online, as there is a copyright. Here's some detail on the development: http://www.dciem.dnd.ca/publications/factsheets/t14_e.html which also has a link to Bonica, the company that is licensed to sell DCIEM products.


Here's a link to a page about "what's the safest dive table?" http://www.divetheblue.net/divemed.htm if you're interested.

 

[Kim]

Oh they are copyrighted - I didn't realise that as I thought they were developed by the military! Other countries military tables (US Navy for example) are easy to find. Anyway thanks for the links.

 

[wedivebc]

Are you sure that the testing wasn't done in a chamber? I'd be surprised if they did the tests in open water - too many variables...

Actually they used a wet chamber and water temp was about 10 deg celcius. So you're both right

 

[DeepC]

What makes the DCIEM so good, Indigo Blue? I use PADI.

I was a navy diver at DCIEM from 1986 to 1989. The DCIEM table took over 20 years and 10's of thousands of dives to develope, using divers of all levels, commercial, navy, recreational, Male and female, all ages, you name it.(Not JUST fit NAvy divers like the US NAvy table trials).The Canadian NAvy DCIEM table was also tested in a real dive enviroment, not only in open water, but also a wet chamber that was filled with water at 10' C.(real average cold water) We not only had the diver in the water but he was also a working diver, on a bike with a certain work load that was controlled from the operators and scientist outside the chamber.The divers were wired for scientific monitoring. The work load was increased to get his heart rate to a specific level determined by age. So I know for a fact, first hand, the DCIEM trials were the most realistic. What resulted was the most conservative and Safest table in the world.(no table is 100% safe) Feed back from US navy and commercial divers tells us they are also the most respected as well. But I don't think the US NAvy would ever publicly admit a Canadian table is better that a US navy table.

 

[headhunter]

I was a navy diver at DCIEM from 1986 to 1989. The DCIEM table took over 20 years and 10's of thousands of dives to develope, using divers of all levels, commercial, navy, recreational, Male and female, all ages, you name it.(Not JUST fit NAvy divers like the US NAvy table trials).The Canadian NAvy DCIEM table was also tested in a real dive enviroment, not only in open water, but also a wet chamber that was filled with water at 10' C.(real average cold water) We not only had the diver in the water but he was also a working diver, on a bike with a certain work load that was controlled from the operators and scientist outside the chamber.The divers were wired for scientific monitoring. The work load was increased to get his heart rate to a specific level determined by age. So I know for a fact, first hand, the DCIEM trials were the most realistic. What resulted was the most conservative and Safest table in the world.(no table is 100% safe) Feed back from US navy and commercial divers tells us they are also the most respected as well. But I don't think the US NAvy would ever publicly admit a Canadian table is better that a US navy table.

Is is possible to find copies of these tables with deco info on the net for us to evaluate (I know glbirch posted a link and I'll look at it)? Do they include deep stops? Do they take into account the studies done with the RGBM model?

OK, I'll stop there.

Christian

 

[Kim]

Is is possible to find copies of these tables with deco info on the net for us to evaluate (I know glbirch posted a link and I'll look at it)? Do they include deep stops? Do they take into account the studies done with the RGBM model?

OK, I'll stop there.

Christian

The Dutch organization NOB apparantly uses the DCIEM tables. While there doesn't seem to be an English version (due to copyright reasons) anywhere - there is a Dutch version of the tables here:
http://www.succotash.demon.nl/tabel/nob.htm

 

[Uncle Pug]

See! Keep repeating it long enough and they'll think you invented it!

I'm not repeating it... just posted one thread on profiling... a long time ago...

And I don't use the 120 *rule*... or use tables.... or use a computer.

 

[headhunter]

The Dutch organization NOB apparantly uses the DCIEM tables. While there doesn't seem to be an English version (due to copyright reasons) anywhere - there is a Dutch version of the tables here:
http://www.succotash.demon.nl/tabel/nob.htm

Thanks for the link Kim. I'm hoping I can find a set of these tables that use imperial measurements for comparison, but I realize that there may not be any. These are Canadian tables after all. I'll spend some time with the link that glbirch provided and see what I can learn there.

Christian

 

[wedivebc]

Is is possible to find copies of these tables with deco info on the net for us to evaluate (I know glbirch posted a link and I'll look at it)? Do they include deep stops? Do they take into account the studies done with the RGBM model?

OK, I'll stop there.

Christian

Look for an ACUC affiliated dive center. They use those tables as well.
The DCIEM tables predate RGBM by a decade or so and also predates the concept of deep stops so I don't think they were considered.


cheers,