Which regulator should you donate?
- Thread starter Wendy
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Backup bungeed around neck...
I'm not tech trained but have thought about this since it comes up a lot in discussions. For me I don't really care which one gets donated. If circumstances allowed I would probably donate the back up. If the situation was such that the primary was taken from me in desperation then I would use my backup. Kind of ago with the flow keep calm attitiude.
D.I.R.Lizard
Registered
Donate my primary, which I breath on a long hose
and switch to my back-up which is bungeed around my neck.
and switch to my back-up which is bungeed around my neck.
Scubaroo
Contributor
Ditto as per O-ring and D.I.R.Lizard. I've never dived with someone with a long hose, they've always had the "standard" recreational hose configuration, so I've swapped the faceplates on my second stages so that the yellow one is in my mouth, to help identify it.
One day I'll meet another diver in person who's heard of DIR.
One day I'll meet another diver in person who's heard of DIR.
Its really beyond me where all this stuff comes from. An OOA diver ( a leach) who used up all their own air and now wants mine ruches up to me for a reg. Two eye balls like two hard boiled eggs inside a mask, the last thing I want at this moment is to give up a reg which is in my mouth and I am 100% sure it is working. The last thing I want as a rescuer is to be out of air even for a moment.
Lets think about this. An OOA situation is not exactly what happens in training in the pool. Oh yoo-hoo, can I borrow some of your air please, are you ready, are you ready, ok, lets exchange the regulators. That's not the real wold. In real life the leach is gona hit you like a ton of bricks.
Now I am going to take my prime reg out with my right hand, give it to the leach, at this moment the prime is also flooded in the leachs mouth who does not have enough air to blast clear it while holding on to the reg covering the purge, and at the same time start reaching for my octopus which is most likely also on the right side like most divers erroneously have with my left hand. All while I am also out of air at the moment and the leach wants to go home to mama at warp seven dragging me up holding on to my prime. Common people, who thinks of these procedures?
Never, ever give up your prime. This only complicates matters. For a few precious moments both divers are out of air. And if you think for one moment that the leach will rip the prime out of your mouth like many think it will happen anyway, then they have been doing it wrong all along. It will never happen, not if its done right, no ifs and but about it, it has been proven.
Lets think about this. An OOA situation is not exactly what happens in training in the pool. Oh yoo-hoo, can I borrow some of your air please, are you ready, are you ready, ok, lets exchange the regulators. That's not the real wold. In real life the leach is gona hit you like a ton of bricks.
Now I am going to take my prime reg out with my right hand, give it to the leach, at this moment the prime is also flooded in the leachs mouth who does not have enough air to blast clear it while holding on to the reg covering the purge, and at the same time start reaching for my octopus which is most likely also on the right side like most divers erroneously have with my left hand. All while I am also out of air at the moment and the leach wants to go home to mama at warp seven dragging me up holding on to my prime. Common people, who thinks of these procedures?
Never, ever give up your prime. This only complicates matters. For a few precious moments both divers are out of air. And if you think for one moment that the leach will rip the prime out of your mouth like many think it will happen anyway, then they have been doing it wrong all along. It will never happen, not if its done right, no ifs and but about it, it has been proven.
Kayla
Contributor
well it seems to me that if a diver is out of air, they are not going to wait for you to make up your mind, and there probably going to rip it out of your mouth. I could be totally wrong here, and I'm sorry if I am, but my first instinct would be to go for the one that is obviously working... 
Kayla
Kayla
Scubaroo
Contributor
Good point Kayla! If I was on the verge of drowning because I had no air (eg burst disk, high pressure hose failure, freeflowing reg at depth), the one my buddy has with all those sweet precious bubbles coming out of it is going to look pretty tempting! Never having had an OOA for real, it's hard to tell how one would react, but survival instinct would have to kick in at some point.
devilfish, I think that a lot of divers who follow the "donate from the mouth" philosophy are using a backup regulator on a bungee or surgical tubing necklace, keeping it under their chin, so that they don't have to go hunting for it in the so called "golden triangle" that some recreational training agencies advise. Passing the OOA diver a 100% postively working regulator is the whole idea of donating from the mouth! They're out of air - they need a regulator that is working, tested as recently as the last breath you drew from it - not an octopus that is left trailing behind like a wrecking ball dragging on the bottom all-too-often. You could be passing your buddy a mouthful of sand, which isn't going to help them at all.
devilfish, I think that a lot of divers who follow the "donate from the mouth" philosophy are using a backup regulator on a bungee or surgical tubing necklace, keeping it under their chin, so that they don't have to go hunting for it in the so called "golden triangle" that some recreational training agencies advise. Passing the OOA diver a 100% postively working regulator is the whole idea of donating from the mouth! They're out of air - they need a regulator that is working, tested as recently as the last breath you drew from it - not an octopus that is left trailing behind like a wrecking ball dragging on the bottom all-too-often. You could be passing your buddy a mouthful of sand, which isn't going to help them at all.
The absolutely best way to design a response to an emergency is to envision the worst case scenario and build your responses around that. In an OOA situation, the worst case scenario is that the OOA diver yanks your regulator out of your mouth and you have to respond by retrieving your other regulator.
Now, the cavers and other technical divers have known this for years, but the mainstream certification agencies continue to teach an inferior, and what could easily be argued a downright dangerous practice of donating an octo.
Why dangerous? Many reasons:
1. It only teaches a person how to react to an unlikely situation, which is an OOA diver calmly coming up to them, getting their attention, drawing their hand across their throat and waiting for the donating diver to dig the octo out of a pocket, pull it off a mouthpiece holder or out of a ball. All this time the OOA diver patiently waits for the octo to be offered to them. If you think this is the way itll work, I have some property in Florida to sell you. By only being taught how to react in such an unlikely situation, when an air-starved diver does yank the reg out of your mouth, youll suddenly have TWO panicked divers instead of one.
2. It encourages the purchasing of poor equipment and teaches poor equipment maintenance and testing. I dont care what the divers in the rarified atmosphere of this board do, jump on any normal dive boat and watch how the other folks treat their octos. First, theyre typically some economy regulator (you can almost hear the dive shop: You should have a good performing regulator for yourself, but the octo can be cheap because its hardly ever used). Watch them test them. Or should I say dont test them. Ive seen people dive an entire week having never tested their octos when they arrived, stuffed them in their pockets (or let them drag across the reef) for an entire week and then go home. This sand-filled, untested, inaccessible, cheap regulator is what youre supposed to offer to an OOA diver. Right.
3. By teaching only donating the octo, it cultivates a fear of giving up your primary. Just look at what a supposedly experienced diver (devilfish) has to say: The last thing I want as a rescuer is to be out of air even for a moment. If someone cant give up their primary for even a moment, they dont belong diving in anything deeper than a bathtub, Im sorry. Worry over losing your reg is something youre supposed to get over during the pool sessions in open water class. If you have this irrational fear, imagine whatll happen when an OOA diver DOES yank your primary out of your mouth. One of three things: Youll panic, perhaps resulting in a double drowning. Youll discover just how inaccessible youve made your octo or youll fight off the diver and perhaps have a drowning on your conscience for the rest of your life because you blindly followed what that mainstream agencies taught you.
You want a better solution? As I said, look to see what the cavers or technical divers do. We dont have the option of heading to the surface when were OOA, so weve come up with a robust, simple system that makes sure that the OOA diver get air, gets it fast and gets it from a working regulator. The solution is to always donate your primary and have your backup (no longer called an octo in this configuration) on a necklace just under your chin. So how do those above three points pan out with this configuration?
1. By donating from your mouth, it doesnt matter if you hand off the regulator or if its taken from you. Your practiced reaction is always the same: You merely pick up the backup reg thats accessible in a fraction of a second because its right below your chin. No ifs, ands or buts or exceptions to an OOA situation, it always happens the exact same way, the only variable is if you offer the reg or its taken from you. In either case, no sweat. Remember that if the regs taken away from you, youve only been OOA for a fraction of a second, versus the other diver than may be on the verge of drowning. Even at the bottom of an exhale youll have easily 30 seconds to perform a 1 second operation of getting your backup. This is nothing to be feared.
2. Youll realize that the backup is YOUR regulator too. This will cause you to purchase a good one and test it at the start of every dive. Because its not stuffed in some pocket or on some mouthpiece retainer that requires re-stowing after deployment, its an easy no-brainer to test it at the start of every dive. You jump in and with your face in the water swap the primary for the backup and back again. Doing this also makes you comfortable retrieving your backup to lessen your fears of giving up your primary. Now if an OOA diver comes up to you, instead of them getting a sand-filled, sub standard octo that may not work because its never been tested on this trip, they get a regulator that was tested only a breath ago. It WILL work, not only that, but the OOA diver will know that theyre getting a regulator that you were just breathing off, and will have the confidence that the reg WILL work as well. Your backup thats been just below your chin for the entire dive was tested at the beginning of the dive and has not been in any position to pick up any sand or debris. It WILL work too.
3. By teaching this method and all the techniques that comes with it, not only will a divers irrational fears of giving up the primary be laid to rest, but they will be trained to handle an OOA situation in one simple manner. A manner that coincides with the scenario that is most likely to occur anyway.
I think the way the mainstream agencies teach how to handle OOA situations is a great disservice to the sport. There IS a better way and the cavers have been doing it for YEARS. Handle ALL OOA situations exactly the same and youll react better, swifter and more decisively and increase the chances of both you and the OOA diver coming through unharmed.
ALWAYS donate your primary. ALWAYS have a good-quality backup on a necklace below your chin and ALWAYS test it at the start of a dive. Remember, thats where YOUR air is coming from if your buddy runs out.
Roak
Now, the cavers and other technical divers have known this for years, but the mainstream certification agencies continue to teach an inferior, and what could easily be argued a downright dangerous practice of donating an octo.
Why dangerous? Many reasons:
1. It only teaches a person how to react to an unlikely situation, which is an OOA diver calmly coming up to them, getting their attention, drawing their hand across their throat and waiting for the donating diver to dig the octo out of a pocket, pull it off a mouthpiece holder or out of a ball. All this time the OOA diver patiently waits for the octo to be offered to them. If you think this is the way itll work, I have some property in Florida to sell you. By only being taught how to react in such an unlikely situation, when an air-starved diver does yank the reg out of your mouth, youll suddenly have TWO panicked divers instead of one.
2. It encourages the purchasing of poor equipment and teaches poor equipment maintenance and testing. I dont care what the divers in the rarified atmosphere of this board do, jump on any normal dive boat and watch how the other folks treat their octos. First, theyre typically some economy regulator (you can almost hear the dive shop: You should have a good performing regulator for yourself, but the octo can be cheap because its hardly ever used). Watch them test them. Or should I say dont test them. Ive seen people dive an entire week having never tested their octos when they arrived, stuffed them in their pockets (or let them drag across the reef) for an entire week and then go home. This sand-filled, untested, inaccessible, cheap regulator is what youre supposed to offer to an OOA diver. Right.
3. By teaching only donating the octo, it cultivates a fear of giving up your primary. Just look at what a supposedly experienced diver (devilfish) has to say: The last thing I want as a rescuer is to be out of air even for a moment. If someone cant give up their primary for even a moment, they dont belong diving in anything deeper than a bathtub, Im sorry. Worry over losing your reg is something youre supposed to get over during the pool sessions in open water class. If you have this irrational fear, imagine whatll happen when an OOA diver DOES yank your primary out of your mouth. One of three things: Youll panic, perhaps resulting in a double drowning. Youll discover just how inaccessible youve made your octo or youll fight off the diver and perhaps have a drowning on your conscience for the rest of your life because you blindly followed what that mainstream agencies taught you.
You want a better solution? As I said, look to see what the cavers or technical divers do. We dont have the option of heading to the surface when were OOA, so weve come up with a robust, simple system that makes sure that the OOA diver get air, gets it fast and gets it from a working regulator. The solution is to always donate your primary and have your backup (no longer called an octo in this configuration) on a necklace just under your chin. So how do those above three points pan out with this configuration?
1. By donating from your mouth, it doesnt matter if you hand off the regulator or if its taken from you. Your practiced reaction is always the same: You merely pick up the backup reg thats accessible in a fraction of a second because its right below your chin. No ifs, ands or buts or exceptions to an OOA situation, it always happens the exact same way, the only variable is if you offer the reg or its taken from you. In either case, no sweat. Remember that if the regs taken away from you, youve only been OOA for a fraction of a second, versus the other diver than may be on the verge of drowning. Even at the bottom of an exhale youll have easily 30 seconds to perform a 1 second operation of getting your backup. This is nothing to be feared.
2. Youll realize that the backup is YOUR regulator too. This will cause you to purchase a good one and test it at the start of every dive. Because its not stuffed in some pocket or on some mouthpiece retainer that requires re-stowing after deployment, its an easy no-brainer to test it at the start of every dive. You jump in and with your face in the water swap the primary for the backup and back again. Doing this also makes you comfortable retrieving your backup to lessen your fears of giving up your primary. Now if an OOA diver comes up to you, instead of them getting a sand-filled, sub standard octo that may not work because its never been tested on this trip, they get a regulator that was tested only a breath ago. It WILL work, not only that, but the OOA diver will know that theyre getting a regulator that you were just breathing off, and will have the confidence that the reg WILL work as well. Your backup thats been just below your chin for the entire dive was tested at the beginning of the dive and has not been in any position to pick up any sand or debris. It WILL work too.
3. By teaching this method and all the techniques that comes with it, not only will a divers irrational fears of giving up the primary be laid to rest, but they will be trained to handle an OOA situation in one simple manner. A manner that coincides with the scenario that is most likely to occur anyway.
I think the way the mainstream agencies teach how to handle OOA situations is a great disservice to the sport. There IS a better way and the cavers have been doing it for YEARS. Handle ALL OOA situations exactly the same and youll react better, swifter and more decisively and increase the chances of both you and the OOA diver coming through unharmed.
ALWAYS donate your primary. ALWAYS have a good-quality backup on a necklace below your chin and ALWAYS test it at the start of a dive. Remember, thats where YOUR air is coming from if your buddy runs out.
Roak
Not so, Roaky.
NASDS/SSI teaches donating the primary, then switching to the octo when that makes sense (the octo is the long hose).
Rick
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