Which Regulator Should A Tropical Dive Center Carry For Rental?

[halocline]

If you're a SP dealer, I would recommend the MK2/R290. (or whatever the current downstream 2nd stage is) Though, if I were in your position I would still not service the regs with factory repair kits. I would buy first stage seats from SP if possible, and would source the rest of the repair kits from an o-ring vendor and buy a sheet of EPDM to stamp LP seats from.

Those 1st stages can go a long time between servicing if they're rinsed and stored clean. The 2nd stages will likely need a bit more attention, but the parts required could cost a few cents if you stamp your own seats. A very experienced regulator DIY'er on this forum, awap, has done so with excellent results for unbalanced SP 2nd stages.

 

[victorzamora]

Victor, thanks for the comments and ideasWe have no problems getting spares from the companies that we are dealers for and as we are a high end service provider, we need to stick with name brand major manufacturers.
We are the only scuba retail store in the southern half of Belize but we don't sell a lot of regs. Most of our customers bring their own to Belize or rent from us. Our main market for selling regs and other big ticket scuba items tends to be to locals as Belize is a poor country. We mainly need them for rental and we currently have about 50 in our rental pool and need to order another 20 or so. We seem to be likely to get "deals" for gear for our DMs and Instructors as the manufacturers consider them to be walking (or swimming) bill boards - and I think with good reason as we see the vast majority of our customers buying Splash T-shirts of the same color as the dive crew they went out with!
Regards
Ralph

Well if you're a dealer, that changes my recommendation completely. That was simply assuming you weren't. See if one of the manufacturers you carry offers a rental-fleet deal. The LDS I worked for got a huge discount on an entire fleet of rental regs. Normally, the "Keyman" pricing instructors and DMs get doesn't include redundant/spare gear....so they couldn't purchase a few sets for the shop to use. As far as which ones, that's hard as I don't know who you have dealership status for. All regs are good (especially big-name regs) and definitely good enough for shallow rec diving....so you can't really go wrong. I'd contact the manufacturers and see who offered the best deal. Remember, you ARE a swimming billboard....and when you hand someone rental regs, they realize they like certain gear mfgs (especially newer divers with limited experience) and are likely to purchase those. MFGs know this.....don't give them that advertising for free

 

[oly5050user]

If you're a SP dealer, I would recommend the MK2/R290. (or whatever the current downstream 2nd stage is) Though, if I were in your position I would still not service the regs with factory repair kits. I would buy first stage seats from SP if possible, and would source the rest of the repair kits from an o-ring vendor and buy a sheet of EPDM to stamp LP seats from.

Those 1st stages can go a long time between servicing if they're rinsed and stored clean. The 2nd stages will likely need a bit more attention, but the parts required could cost a few cents if you stamp your own seats. A very experienced regulator DIY'er on this forum, awap, has done so with excellent results for unbalanced SP 2nd stages.

Not a good idea from a liability viewpoint...accident happens,diver dies,lawyers get on this and it is discovered that unauthorized replacement parts were used. Who put them in? Do not go cheap for sake of a few cents. If you are doing your own regulator servicing and want to do this thats one thing. You cannot expect a dive operator to do this and not be held at fault if an accident occurs.

 

[halocline]

Not a good idea from a liability viewpoint...accident happens,diver dies,lawyers get on this and it is discovered that unauthorized replacement parts were used. Who put them in? Do not go cheap for sake of a few cents. If you are doing your own regulator servicing and want to do this thats one thing. You cannot expect a dive operator to do this and not be held at fault if an accident occurs.

What a bunch of nonsense. The exact same materials can be sourced elsewhere at a tiny fraction of the cost. But then again dive shop owners (at least some...)seem to love the liability card, don't they?

 

[oly5050user]

What a bunch of nonsense. The exact same materials can be sourced elsewhere at a tiny fraction of the cost. But then again dive shop owners (at least some...)seem to love the liability card, don't they?

Its called "cover your ass" lawyer asks " how did the failed part of the regulator get in the regulator?'" defendant, " well, we did not want to pay the $3. the part supplied by the manufacturer costs,so we made it ourselves" lawyer "so you know for a fact that the method you used is recommended and has been tested by the manufacturer for the use you put it to...." defendant "no sir"....end result is goodbye home, car,wife, dog...Do what you want if you are a DIY BUT if you are being paid to do this you are taking liability for your work. Use manufacturer recommended parts and procedures to limit liability. If you cannot do the job right, then do not do it at all...Not currently a LDS owner here..

 

[Jim Lapenta]

As much as I am a DIYer myself I agree with oly5050user on this. It is a whole different can of worms when you are renting or even loaning the regs as a business. Individuals can do whatever the heck they want. A business has to realize that the first time someone screws up and dies or gets hurt that any notion of personal responsibility goes out the window. The diver or worse, the divers family is going to hire a lawyer and he is going to throw crap at as many spots as possible and hope some of it sticks. Even if it doesn't stick on someone they are still going to have to "clean the stain" (so to speak), and defend themselves against the suit.

I don't know what the laws are in Belize regarding product liability and waivers and such but for the price of a genuine service kit for 20 regs as a dealer it's not worth it to go cheap and buy miscellaneous parts from "o rings r us".

 

[flots am]

What a bunch of nonsense. The exact same materials can be sourced elsewhere at a tiny fraction of the cost.

How much is saving $2.95 worth if you end up in court because some diver thought your reg was breathing hard, panicked, bolted and died?

Even if it has nothing to do with your service, there really is only "the reg was serviced and performance then verified according to manufacturer's specifications" and "anything else". You don't want to be on the "anything else" side.

Of course, this only matters with a functioning legal system. If the chances of getting sued are slim-to-none, you can use whatever you want. I have no idea how the legal system works were you are, so this might not actually be an issue. Mechanically, there's nothing wrong with stamping out your own parts, and buying o-rings, assuming you can get the right materials and components. In the US, you would need to be insane to do that.

 

[halocline]

I would sure like to hear about a lawsuit on a dive operator, especially one outside of the U.S., for using aftermarket rebuild parts on rental equipment. How about a rental car company using aftermarket parts on their fleet, are they subject to prosecution if someone gets into an accident because they didn't use actual manufacturers' parts?

It has nothing to do with 'doing the job right', BTW. I am confident that the o-rings and soft seat material I use is AT LEAST as good as the stuff in the actual rebuild kits for the regulators I'm talking about. You don't actually think that SP makes special o-rings, do you? Or uses some sort of secret material in their LP seats?

'Doing the job right' in regulator service means actually understanding how they work, how the materials work and what are the optimal materials to use in specific applications.

I don't pretend to know what specifically would qualify as negligence for a dive op in Belize, and everyone else posting on this thread except the OP doesn't know either. But with ALL the possibilities for getting sued by a dive customer, using equal quality o-rings and seats not from the manufacturer is likely to be way, way down the list. What about tank valve o-rings, do you need to get those from the valve manufacturer? How many dive shops and charters have a supply of 014 o-rings on board? Think those came from the valve manufacturer? How about a hose o-ring? It's a wonder anyone dares to engage in any sort of dive commerce at all.

I objected to Oly's comment because the claim of 'liability' by dive shops and manufacturers is a tired attempt at controlling parts and information. The only reason this persists is because the community of divers simply lacks the size (and therefore power) to do much about it. Imagine an auto company or dealer refusing to sell parts due to 'liability' even though there is a much greater risk of injury from say, brake failure, than there is in regulator failure.

 

[52brandon]

I would sure like to hear about a lawsuit on a dive operator, especially one outside of the U.S., for using aftermarket rebuild parts on rental equipment. How about a rental car company using aftermarket parts on their fleet, are they subject to prosecution if someone gets into an accident because they didn't use actual manufacturers' parts?

It has nothing to do with 'doing the job right', BTW. I am confident that the o-rings and soft seat material I use is AT LEAST as good as the stuff in the actual rebuild kits for the regulators I'm talking about. You don't actually think that SP makes special o-rings, do you? Or uses some sort of secret material in their LP seats?

'Doing the job right' in regulator service means actually understanding how they work, how the materials work and what are the optimal materials to use in specific applications.

I don't pretend to know what specifically would qualify as negligence for a dive op in Belize, and everyone else posting on this thread except the OP doesn't know either. But with ALL the possibilities for getting sued by a dive customer, using equal quality o-rings and seats not from the manufacturer is likely to be way, way down the list. What about tank valve o-rings, do you need to get those from the valve manufacturer? How many dive shops and charters have a supply of 014 o-rings on board? Think those came from the valve manufacturer? How about a hose o-ring? It's a wonder anyone dares to engage in any sort of dive commerce at all.

I objected to Oly's comment because the claim of 'liability' by dive shops and manufacturers is a tired attempt at controlling parts and information. The only reason this persists is because the community of divers simply lacks the size (and therefore power) to do much about it. Imagine an auto company or dealer refusing to sell parts due to 'liability' even though there is a much greater risk of injury from say, brake failure, than there is in regulator failure.

lawsuit aside, as I'm with you, I doubt it'll hold up especially if it's established as an LLC, BUT a death due to equipment failure would lead to poor publicity and a drop in business. Aside from the obvious, that I doubt any dive shop owner wouldn't lose sleep over somebody dying with the possibility of it being because they cut corners on equipment maintenance. All things considered, you'd have to decide if it's truly worth saving the $30 every 2 years on the reg. Also, the amount of time spent making your own parts, and whether it's worth paying extra just to save that time (I have no idea how much time it would take to make your own service parts)

 

[flots am]

I would sure like to hear about a lawsuit on a dive operator, especially one outside of the U.S., for using aftermarket rebuild parts on rental equipment. How about a rental car company using aftermarket parts on their fleet, are they subject to prosecution if someone gets into an accident because they didn't use actual manufacturers' parts?

That's not really the point. The point is that a few bucks is a cheap price to cut off an entire avenue of attack.

Considering the minimal price difference I'd be very happy to tell someone "I used the factory parts from the bag. If you have any questions, feel free to contact the manufacturer", instead of spending the next year screwing around trying to find out where o-rings-r-us on eBay got their o-rings and exactly who made them and out of what.

And yes, you can bet that if a car you did brake work on failed to stop before running someone over, the other attorney would be looking into the origin of the brake parts and the service procedures very closely.

I don't actually care what anybody uses. However if I owned a dive shop in a place where lawsuits are common and could be successful, I'd be using real parts on the rental regs and for customers.