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Which Quick release tank bands?

Discussion in 'Buoyancy Compensators (BC's) and Weight Systems' started by dumpsterpurrs, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. johndiver999

    johndiver999 Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Gainesville FL
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    If you are partially disabled then this might work. Avoid making the BC heavy by using a weight belt instead of integrated weights. Also, the scuba pro type of buckle is very secure and you might be able to use one, however it probably would require cutting a centrally positioned slot in the plate - most I think are design for two cam bands - a lower and an upper, if you are going to use only one, it needs to be more centrally located.

    In any regard, the scuba pro type of buckles are extremely secure and they are great if you don't change tank diameters often. I bet, you could get a 1 ft long piece of PVC that will fit over the buckle perfectly and give you a one-ft long lever arm to close the buckle tightly, Doesn't seem to be too much of a problem to carry. It would probably work to pop it open after the dive as well.
     
    DeepSeaExplorer likes this.
  2. dumpsterpurrs

    dumpsterpurrs Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Southeast Asia
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    now that's definitely a novel solution :D should work while fun diving, but can I do that when I'm a DM or working as an Eco Diver? or a student on a rec, tec, or pro course? the expectation seems to be if you're working or studying, you're supposed to take care of your own stuff.
     
  3. Zef

    Zef Divemaster

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    Perhaps you are looking at the wrong line of work if your disability gets in the way of working as a professional diver. I have nothing against folks with disabilities mind you, I just believe that while doing something from a recreational standpoint is one thing and one can work around their disability but when working as a "professional" the person needs to be adaptable to whatever situation that presents itself...while that may work out for some disabilities there are other disabilities that don't lend itself to that. If you can't handle your own equipment, how well would you be able to help a struggling client, in or out of the water? I am not saying you should not go pro, but you should really think through if this is really feasible for you with whatever condition you have. If you really want to be a pro then perhaps you should think about ways that YOU can reduce your limitations...reading that you want to be DM but are struggling to care for your own gear is not confidence inspiring.

    -Z
     
  4. Marie13

    Marie13 Great Lakes Mermaid ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Great Lakes
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    I know when to ask for help.

    I didn’t see you were going for DM. If you can’t handle your own tanks, how are you going to handle situations as a DM that require you to help a student with their gear or in a rescue situation? I’m just being practical with that question.
     
  5. dumpsterpurrs

    dumpsterpurrs Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Southeast Asia
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    So my Rescue instructor is a serious BADASS, one of the toughest I've seen, and she isn't medically allowed to handle tanks. Both she and her shop hold extremely high safety standards that might be considered too stringent compared to other shops (they even insisted that I sat out three different dives because they did not feel my conditions were safe enough for taking the course on those days, while I know for a fact most shops would sign me off - not necessarily an unsafe thing, just those gray areas/judgment call situations). I've recently dived with a seasoned, full-time instructor with a literal hole in his stomach (bacteria munched through his yummy tummy...).

    I've dived with many other dive pros with various physical and psychological disabilities. Disabilities are not defections, but a combination of impairments and BARRIERS. We can't do much about the impairments, but we can (try to) take down barriers. I did the Rescue course while disabled with accommodating and ingenious instructors who found ways to make the course make sense to me. I was with RAID so no watered-down standards. I aced the course.

    Also, there are various degrees of disabilities. Like I've mentioned, I can still do pretty much everything (I *still* go solo hiking/camping for a month at a time! my backpack was, no joke, 13kg the entire trip, entirely on my back and feet, for an entire month oyyyyyy), just in a sea of pain, and even the smallest struggle to disconnect the LPI would exhaust me - which I then recover from, but it would be very uncomfortable for a bit. So I'd prefer to avoid pains and exhaustion if possible, even if I can still put my big girl panties on, woman up, and suck it up.

    @Zef and @Marie13 , I understand your comments came from a place of care and kindness. I do appreciate that a lot, and it will be the only thing I keep in mind. I would like to also kindly share my perspective as a person with disabilities, that you should trust PWD to know what we can and can't do, that we know better than you the limitations and potentials of our bodies. If something we say about our abilities sounds unexpected to you, you might want to ask clarifying questions to learn more before forming opinions.

    For example, in this case, if you asked me why I want to do the DM course, I'd tell you I don't ever intend on really working full time/making a living as a dive pro. I just want a chance to dive more. I have a life somewhere diving isn't possible, and I don't intend on leaving it. I also don't ever plan on taking paying jobs away from qualifying or potentially qualifying locals. But I would enjoy dabbling in and out of working/volunteering as a backup diver for my dive club on trips or just do it as part of my slow vacations around my region. I enjoy taking care of people and sharing my passion for diving, I'm not looking to make a career out of this. Lastly, the marine conservation trainer program I'm interested in also requires DM cert. It's not the reason why I decided to take DM, it just happens to work out that way. I do eco and scientific diving stuff, which is considered rec but really not fun diving. I can only imagine the Dm course tremendously benefiting me as an eco diver, whether or not I manage to finish it/get certified (myriad of reasons why it's the DM course - and not Instructor or even those performance diver or DIR style courses - the one an eco diver should take, but I won't go into it now).

    See, this thread is all about helping me manage/reduce one of my limitations. Less exhaustion picking up bpw/tank on the surface = more energy to focus on safer diving. More ease in gear control also = safer diving.
     
  6. Blues Runner

    Blues Runner Angel Fish

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Jacksonville, FL
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    I dive a HOG Total Buoyancy Control harness with a soft plate and dual Edge stainless quick release cam bands. The quick release bands are easy to adjust and allow the harness to be removed from the tank without lifting it over the tank. I use both tank cam band trim weights and waste band dump pocket weights. If weight is an issue for you, you could remove the trim and dump weights before changing tanks. A solid back plate doesn't give you that option.

    The only issue with the quick release is on a crowded dive boat with tall tank pockets. It can be difficult to access the back of the tank to open or close the quick release.
     
    dumpsterpurrs likes this.
  7. stuartv

    stuartv Seeking the Light

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Manassas, VA
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    I really do hate raining on people's parades, but sometimes a reality check is what someone needs, and will (hopefully) benefit them in the long run. I hope you will take the following as it is intended - which is to challenge you to really think through what it means to become a scuba professional and whether that is really something you want to do and whether it could possibly ultimately be a disservice to people for whom you could become responsible.

    Do you think you could/should be allowed to work as a firefighter, if you wanted to? Do you think you could get an unconscious person out of a burning building if you had to? Do you think being a scuba professional carries any less of a burden in terms of requirements for strength and stamina? At first blush, that may sound overly dramatic. Maybe it is - but if so, I think it's only by a little bit. The standards for being a dive pro may not be as stringent as for being a firefighter, but that is not what I am talking about.

    Once you step up to being a scuba professional (which is anything from Divemaster on up), you are accepting a burden of responsibility - a duty of care - to the people you are working for (i.e. your customers - even the ones that you are just volunteering for). You are accepting responsibility for some degree of their safety.

    If disconnecting your own LPI is exhausting to you, how well do you think you will do when you have a student/customer whose inflator sticks, they are starting to experience a runaway ascent, they begin to panic, and you need to wrestle past their flailing arms to disconnect THEIR LPI, then try to control them while managing both your buoyancy to avoid either one of you corking and possibly getting very hurt? How well will you do when you are the DM on a boat in sporty seas and a diver is non-responsive on the surface and you have to get them out of the water and into the boat? Or you have to surface a non-responsive diver and then make a long swim towing them to a boat or shore in sporty seas? If I interpret "backup diver for my club" correctly, it could ultimately entail any of those scenarios.

    I know that the standards for physical fitness for a DM and higher are not that tough, but they are tougher than for open water. And, I think it's debatable whether the standards for pros are tough enough. I definitely think that any pro with a good conscience would maintain their fitness at a higher level than just what the standards call for.

    You think it's a big deal that you were able to carry a 13kg backpack for a month. I'm not trying to be mean when I say this, but that's only 29 pounds. If carrying 29 pounds on your back all day (presumably, with a pack that is properly padded and supportive) is a big deal to you, do you really think you have the strength and stamina that a dive pro should have? The strength and stamina to rescue another diver in difficult conditions? A diver who could be a 6+ foot tall, 200+ pound man?

    I'm not sure why your marine conservation trainer program requires you to be a DM, but if it's because you would potentially be responsible for other divers, while in the water, you have to ask yourself, standards aside, do YOU believe you have what it takes to accept responsibility for the safety of other divers in the water? Will you be able to accept it if there is an accident someday and someone gets really hurt and you know in your heart that if they had had a different DM that day, that was not disabled, they probably would not have gotten hurt?

    I am a scuba instructor. I am a reasonably strong and fit man. And I can tell you that every time I get in the water with students, I have a little bit of ice water feeling down my spine because of the responsibility I feel for making sure they get out safely. I dread the day that something were to happen and I might feel like it was in any part because I was somehow inadequate in my skills, my knowledge, my preparation, my judgment, my presence of mind, my strength, or my stamina.

    If you fairly consider the responsibility you would be taking on and you think you are up to and want to do it, then more power to you!
     
    racanichou, RogueClimber and Zef like this.
  8. dumpsterpurrs

    dumpsterpurrs Divemaster Candidate

    # of Dives: 100 - 199
    Location: Southeast Asia
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    Again, stuartv, I read a lot of care and thoughtfulness in your comment, and I will also cherish and consider it carefully like I did with Zef and Marie's comments.

    But I must repeat myself here: "you should trust PWD to know what we can and can't do, that we know better than you the limitations and potentials of our bodies. If something we say about our abilities sounds unexpected to you, you might want to ask clarifying questions to learn more before forming opinions."

    Anyway, great questions (even though they could be asked differently)! And don't worry, I've spent all these years thinking long and hard about them, even before I got disabled (mostly because I'm size XXS and tiny and not a physically gifted person at all, far from it!). I'm not sharing with you a spontaneous idea, but something I have drawn many pros-cons charts and brain maps and career paths, and all that. I've mostly said No to myself, until the evidence overwhelmingly shows there's a way for me to do it.

    (important to note that I never really cared for being dive pros. doing DMT isn't a dream or whatever. just something i think would benefit me - and others, one of the many things I can do to better myself)

    No I wouldn't be a firefighter because I don't WANT to handle the physical DISCOMFORTS. But I'm telling you, yes I CAN *eventually* do almost everything anyone can do, just with an ocean of pains, which I must then clench my teeth and just.do.it and wait for it to be over. It's not a way I'd rather live, even if I technically can. I don't wanna!

    That's what the Rescue (and I assume DM) prepares me to do! In my Master Rescue course with RAID, we explored my strengths and weaknesses, hone in on my strengths (situational awareness! calmness when responding to emergencies! super quick to react correctly! perfect Cpr/1staid!) and learn to manage my weaknesses (connect and disconnect those stuck LPIs until my fingers give out and I was ready to scream the heads off at anyone passing by! bring good knives/shears/trilobites to cut anyone out of any entanglement quick! figure out a physically smart way to tow unconscious divers up the boat! long swims are easy for me (despite how much I hate them) just as breath-holding). Work with your abilities, not against them.

    I'm 5'2", 110lbs. 29lbs is more than 1/4 my body weight.
    I used to backpack with 40-44lbs, almost 1/2 my body weight. Can't do that anymore. Can still pick up the backpack and walk and all, but the EXCRUCIATING PAINS and then I have no energy to enjoy anything anymore.

    If a bigger diver gets in trouble, I will definitely help and participate in the rescue. The Rescue course also taught me different things needed to be done during a rescue that I can prioritize for myself (calling help! managing first responders! instructing rescue team what to do!) while assigning other rescuers for the tasks I'm less good at.

    We can make a separate post for this, but my guesses are:
    - Even better situational awareness from experience herding fun divers/students
    - Overall understanding of the rec dive industry and things affecting a specific part of conservation work (this program also includes activities that can heavily engage fun divers, and rec activities are also among the top reasons affecting the work this specific program aims to do)
    - Experience and skills sharing and spreading passion for eco diving with others

    These are excellent questions that should be asked of any prospective dive pros! And they are actually the easier questions for me because I've always had the answers :)

    FYI I work in social development/humanitarian aids as well as animal rescues. The idea of life and death loudly reminds me of its cruelty during every single natural disaster and every single time i pick up orphaned/abandoned newborn kittens from the dumpster (thus my screen name). Just the Sunday before last, I found four one-day-old kittens. For the first week of their lives, i lived and breathed in constant fear that any of them could die any moment, PRECISELY *BECAUSE* OF MY LACK OF ABILITIES TO CARE FOR THEM PROPERLY LIKE A MAMACAT. The fear of losing a living, breathing creature then exceeded any human-related emergencies i've been in.

    The good thing is, the NGOs I've worked for have trained me very well to handle these issues. I've learned to accept and work with my limitations. I've learned to take down barriers if people refuse to take them down. For the paths blocked by heavy barriers I can't lift, sometimes i can find a different one leading to the same destination :)

    This is it! Here's all that should be said :wink:
     
  9. Diving Dubai

    Diving Dubai Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Dubai UAE
    3,280
    3,117
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    Optimise your kit, to meet the demands and requirements of the way you dive.

    SB is full of people who insist there is only one way. Nonsense.

    For the record, I fitted QD cam bands on my 3 different rigs as well as my wife's two rigs. Re sizing for different tanks is probably easier too, and Cam bands get a nice crease in their normal position.

    I much prefer the speed that I can swap tanks using QD over cam bands. If someone were to suggest to me that I should empty my weight pockets and refill them on every tank change rather than using QD, I'd laugh at them.

    Up to that point I've been okay with cam bands, it's just that QD is easier, meaning my kit is sorted faster giving me more time with students or getting in the breakfast queue faster
     
    dumpsterpurrs likes this.
  10. Zef

    Zef Divemaster

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    OP,
    You asked for advice on tank straps and you received it You then expanded the discussion with a vague indication of a disability. You have yet to disclose what that disability actually is but expect people to continue to play guessing games with you as the discussion continues. You reject the notion from dive professionals and others with experience that perhaps going pro is not compatible with your disability that you still have not cited except that it leaves in you in pain and exhausted. You state that we (the community at large) should consider/trust that people with disabilities know their limits and we should respect that....I personally think, reading through everything, that while you may know what your limits are relative to your disability, you perhaps are missing the point that we have put forth and that is that it is not your limits that are a concern it is the demands of the role...no one can really evaluate, in the context of this discussion thread, whether you fully understand the demands of the role of a dive pro in relationship to your disability because you keep talking around your disability. I get it that disabilities are a private matter and we do not have any right to know that info, but you started the discussion and took it well beyond the original question you posed. You have hinted/stated more than once that folks should phrase their questions differently or ask certain questions as if the onus is on us to flesh out what your limitations are....that is a bit disingenuous and frustrating.

    The reality is the standards to obtain a professional level cert is not that high. If you think you can obtain it then go for it. In the end their are countless people who are out of shape or contending with one form of disability or another who hold professional level certifications....you can be one too. It amazes me how many times I have run across posts discussing the requirements for certification and how difficult those posters believe they are particularly the swim requirements. My message to them is that if you can't swim well then perhaps you are not suited to professional status in an activity that takes place in and around bodies of water. I see people holding certs all the time that I question what box of cracker jacks they pulled their cards out of....but I realize that i am not responsible for them or any issues they have or create. The problem for me is they pull the rest of the professional community down to their level instead of contributing to elevating the community to a higher standard.

    You indicated in your last post that you want to go DM because it will help you improve....perhaps in some esoteric way it will, but if you plan to go PADI specifically and think there is some aspect of the course that tailored around you improving your dive skills you are mistaken...the expectation is that you already have your skills honed. There is a list of skills that you need to demonstrate during the course of your certification journey and perhaps your instructor will demonstrate to you how he/she wants you to perform those skills, but those skills don's make you a good diver...they don't help you navigate under water, they don't help you respond to gear issues, panic, etc, they don't teach you how to pace yourself when leading others, they don't teach you how specifically to manage a dive. While you may be able to demonstrate to an OW student or DSD candidate how to perfectly recover a regulator it does not teach you how to deal with someone who freaks out after getting slapped with a fin and has their 2nd stage knocked out...or that person that although certified decides to bolt to the surface because they sucked up through their nose the little bit of water leaking into their mask and they feel like they are somehow drowning. Or how to deal with that person who sucks down their tank like air is going out of style and doesn't tell you that they are near empty, and perhaps does not accurately indicated their air pressure remaining when asked to do a gauge check. The reality is that a DM candidate SHOULD arrive at the course with well rounded experience as a diver....sadly many do not. The standard is in fact, as I have already stated, quite low for what is considered a professional level cert. The prevailing mentality seems to be if one wants then go buy it....but it is not by nature designed to make you a better diver. More time underwater challenging yourself makes you a better diver, self-awareness makes you a better diver, emulating those who have better skills and developed competence makes you a better diver....going through a DM program does not make you better diver, it makes you have a bill for professional dues to your certifying organization and a bill for professional liability insurance each year, and you get another piece of plastic in the form of the certification card that you can impress people with at the cocktail parties you attend.

    If you want to go pro, then go do it. If you want to discuss your capabilities and limitations with respect to your goals and your disability then you need to be a bit more open and upfront about what you are afflicted with so that those reading/participating don't have to make assumptions about you. If all you want is information about cam straps, then keep the discussion focused on that and stop dropping hints about your life issues. This whole thing reminds me of one of my cousins that will sit down at a restaurant and pull out a pile of pills and sit them on the table in front of her plate with the expectation that someone at the table will ask what they are for....if no one asks she will eventually steer the discussion to her pills and tell everyone about them without really stating why she needs them. It is attention seeking behavior and when people give her the attention she feigns offense at the intrusion....that is where I believe this discussion currently stands.

    I hope you got what you wanted out of this thread. If you have any more questions on the pros and cons of particular cam straps then please ask away. If you want to know which would be best for you with regards any limitations you have then be more upfront about your limitations and what is causing them...then the creative hive of SB can best offer suggestions/solutions for you.

    -Z
     
    racanichou and stuartv like this.

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