Which cenotes for training? GoPro?

[Lloydm]

Right on thanks for the opinions...
I have been doing all my dives in full sidemount cave configuration this last year in preparation - I have worn the helmet and GoPro on all the dives and done countless s-drills with no hose hangups at all so I reject the hose hangup idea.

It is true that most of the footage from a helmet camera is garbage - that's because the speed we look around moves the camera far too quickly. But the times you are looking in the same place for a few seconds is good. I have great footage wearing a helmet cam in cenotes. The primary light and camera look at the same place I do and lighting was not an issue as I expected. You might catch something during all the time your looking straight ahead with the mask blacked out. Blinding other divers is another issue - let's not get into that.

Don't standards forbid instructors from doing so kensuf? They do in PADI recreational diving anyway. I think the PADI wording is something like "instructors must not be engaged in activities such as filming..." I completely agree with the performance anxiety situation. Holding a camera and shooting video would definitely increase task loading big time.. I would never even think of it as a student, but do you really think clipping a cam to the helmet increase task loading? I just can't imagine that being the case but if a cave instructor says it does I would certainly yield to their far greater experience.

 

[Doby45]

I also have never found an instructor that would allow you to run a camera during instruction. I think it is multiple things, task loading and also the instructor not wanting the class recorded. Either way it is totally up to the instructor and not the internet, so once you find the instructor you are going to use for your training, ask THAT instructor about using your GoPro.

 

[rjack321]

I haven't trained there but I expect you will start at Mayan Blue.
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Unlikely, while the cavern at Mayan Blue is bigger than most FL caverns, its not really a training site for cavern students because the entrance is small and you run the risk of making a mess of other diver's lines/exit.

Ponderosa, Carwash, Chikin ha and Chac Mool all have much larger caverns where you aren't crammed in-between logs and the ceiling trying to run line almost straight down. Most cavern classes start in those places because they are easy and better places to learn. And they are also relatively durable and regionally accepted training sites.

I would absolutely not wear a head mounted gopro (ever, but especially in class). Concentrate on the class, ask the instructor to film areas where you are having difficulties, but wherever your head is pointed is literally the least important thing for you to see on debrief and a distraction.

 

[kensuf]

That's a great idea. Instructors have always told me no, but I've never asked them to film me. I hope more instructors do this. I think it can be really helpful, not to mention the free advertising the instructor gets as the video is shared on social media.

I destroy the videos after the course. The purpose of the video capture is to show areas that need improvement, not for self-promotion.

 

[CuzzA]

I destroy the videos after the course. The purpose of the video capture is to show areas that need improvement, not for self-promotion.

That was meant as an unintended benefit. But I suppose most instructors and agencies wouldn't want the raw course shared like that. And it makes sense... you wouldn't want people trying to learn to dive and certainly not cave dive off the internet.

I do appreciate the few instructional videos out there that not only offer helpful tips to improve a divers ability but also explain it.

 

[kensuf]

Don't standards forbid instructors from doing so kensuf? They do in PADI recreational diving anyway. I think the PADI wording is something like "instructors must not be engaged in activities such as filming..." I completely agree with the performance anxiety situation. Holding a camera and shooting video would definitely increase task loading big time.. I would never even think of it as a student, but do you really think clipping a cam to the helmet increase task loading? I just can't imagine that being the case but if a cave instructor says it does I would certainly yield to their far greater experience.

I'm not allowed to video students in a recreational class and it would be foolish to do so with beginning divers. There's no specific prohibition in most of the technical classes, and although the divers in cave courses are already certified divers, I limit the video to specific times in certain courses:

Cavern - during the OW line skills session where we demonstrate / practice the four propulsion techniques (frog kick, modified frog, modified flutter/shuffle, pull and glide) and mask off/line following. Video typically shows problems with propulsion technique and danglies / equipment problems.

Intro to cave - running the reel into the cave. Video typically shows problems with technique, danglies/gear, and line running technique.

Full cave - running a reel into the cave / dropping deco bottles, running / marking jumps. Video typically shows problems with technique (loss of buoyancy while running a jump, for instance).

AN/DP / Technical Deco Diver - Dive 1 (buoyancy control, helicopter turns, back downs, all in 25' of water), Dive 2 - lift bags (from 30' of water), Dive 3 - rescue. Video typically shows problems with technique.

BTW -- I can hold my go-pro in a hand and still have complete eyes on the class. If things look like they're going to go pear shaped, the camera gets stowed and I intercede. If stuff actually does go pear shaped, the camera gets dropped and recovered later. And if things go pear shaped at those portions of those classes , then the student probably shouldn't be in those courses (seriously, losing your stuff in 15' - 30' of openwater for either Cavern or Deco? Or the cavern zone for intro, or anywhere in a cave for full) or I'm a serious numbskull that picked a bad place to run the class.

Finally, yes, I saw where it said some instructors don't want their classes video'ed. This is a liability concern, a couple of years ago when I had my PFO closed I was hoping to get a video of the procedure and they wouldn't let me. It was only the day after that I fully understood why -- if something went wrong during the surgery, it would have been documented on video. However, I believe that if used correctly, video can be a powerful training aid.

Now that I've posted this on the internet, I'll make a mental note to get clarification of this from the training departments for the agencies I'm an instructor for when I return to the states -- if they say I cannot do it, then I'll stop.

 

[kensuf]

That was meant as an unintended benefit. But I suppose most instructors and agencies wouldn't want the raw course shared like that. And it makes sense... you wouldn't want people trying to learn to dive and certainly not cave dive off the internet.

I do appreciate the few instructional videos out there that not only offer helpful tips to improve a divers ability but also explain it.

Honestly, my motivation for destroying the video is that frequently the video's show what NOT to do, and I see no reason to publicly shame my students.

 

[CuzzA]

Honestly, my motivation for destroying the video is that frequently the video's show what NOT to do, and I see no reason to publicly shame my students.

No doubt and I was suggesting students sharing their video, not you. I agree and that makes sense. Maybe every now and then you can do an extreme diver makeover.

I put sand spikes on my camera tray and while I haven't had the opportunity to film myself yet I do intend to do it one day.... I've never seen myself dive and I think it would be helpful, just like it's helpful to watch the mistakes a person makes in their golf swing.

 

[kensuf]

No doubt and I was suggesting students sharing their video, not you. I agree and that makes sense. Maybe every now and then you can do an extreme diver makeover.

I put sand spikes on my camera tray and while I haven't had the opportunity to film myself yet I do intend to do it one day.... I've never seen myself dive and I think it would be helpful, just like it's helpful to watch the mistakes a person makes in their golf swing.

You hit the nail on the head for why I do it. As I said, I only started about a year ago, but I find it valuable.

 

[rjack321]

In the GUE and UTD classes I have been in or worked with divers are videoed by an assistant, not the supervising instructor. And we wipe the video after class, its to help show students their strong and weak points not advertise to others.