Where was the instructor?

[DiverBAS]

Oral inflation is a nice skill, but I don't think it's worth the risk to have new OW students repeatedly taking their reg out of their mouth every time they want to add air.

Terry

Well, we could also simply duct tape the reg to their head. Then there would be no chance of them losing the reg or otherwise gulping water.

What is the goal of teaching someone OWS? Are we training people to dive on their own and be self sufficient, or are we just making them competent enough to be led through the water by a dive professional?

 

[DiverBAS]

I personally prefer to also let the student know of things like the buddy system, and just how totally wrapped around the axle they'd have to be to get into a CESA situtation in the first place. I basically tell them to get a new hobby if they ever do such a thing.

I've yet to find the reason for a fin pivot, except maybe when I look at the CESA and realize that that skill is even further from how I want people to dive. LOL

Regards

.

So do you NOT teach CESA and fin pivot? (thus raising the dread specter of Non Conformity With PADI Standards - gasp!). Yes, the buddy system and situational awareness are also part of the curriculum; preventing a problem is better than correcting one. But what to do when things go wrong is part of the course.

If you were teaching skydiving would you not teach how to use a reserve parachute on the premise that, "if you need a reserve, you screwed up anyways so live - or not - with your mistake"?

 

[Web Monkey]

Removing and replacing a reg is not the same as oral BC inflation.

It's certainly necessary that a diver be able to remove and replace their regulator, but I don't beleive that underwater oral BC inflation is any more a necessary skill than starting your car with a hand crank.

Cars have starters and BCs have power inflators.

The air loss from a power inflator is insignificant and manual inflation is an added risk. Sounds like a pretty easy decision to me.

Terry

Well, we could also simply duct tape the reg to their head. Then there would be no chance of them losing the reg or otherwise gulping water.

What is the goal of teaching someone OWS? Are we training people to dive on their own and be self sufficient, or are we just making them competent enough to be led through the water by a dive professional?

 

[WileEDiver]

I've yet to find the reason for a fin pivot, except maybe when I look at the CESA and realize that that skill is even further from how I want people to dive. LOL

The fin pivot is a gateway skill--not an end in and of itself. It teaches the student the effect that their lungs have on buoyancy. That's the reason it's taught, not so they use it while diving.

 

[fmw625]

On my CESA in OW Cert. I lost a fin as I kicked. I went down like a rock since I was still over weighted. Instead of grabbing for my second, in my in experiance I grabbed for my octo. My instructor grabbed the PI and inflated and we surfaced. I was told later that I had submerged about 12 ft during the incedent. Didn't seem that far to me though.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

So do you NOT teach CESA and fin pivot? (thus raising the dread specter of Non Conformity With PADI Standards - gasp!). Yes, the buddy system and situational awareness are also part of the curriculum; preventing a problem is better than correcting one. But what to do when things go wrong is part of the course.

If you were teaching skydiving would you not teach how to use a reserve parachute on the premise that, "if you need a reserve, you screwed up anyways so live - or not - with your mistake"?

LOL, Oh I teach it alright! Can't have the non-conformity issues! LOL

Sky diving is not scuba diving, the buddy system is a tad different. (Yes I've done both).


Please tell me how many things you would have had to have done wrong to get to a CESA, and then ask me if I think you should at that point thank the Lord for whatever he's about to give you, regardless of what it is.
.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

On my CESA in OW Cert. I lost a fin as I kicked. I went down like a rock since I was still over weighted. Instead of grabbing for my second, in my in experiance I grabbed for my octo. My instructor grabbed the PI and inflated and we surfaced. I was told later that I had submerged about 12 ft during the incedent. Didn't seem that far to me though.

In the CESA you're grabbing at a reg that should already be in your mouth

Told ya I taught it DiverBAS

 

[Scuba_Steve]

The fin pivot is a gateway skill--not an end in and of itself. It teaches the student the effect that their lungs have on buoyancy. That's the reason it's taught, not so they use it while diving.

It's another poor excuse for a skill that isn't a stepping stone for anything that can be taught outright from the get-go.

 

[StSomewhere]

The fin pivot is a gateway skill--not an end in and of itself. It teaches the student the effect that their lungs have on buoyancy. That's the reason it's taught, not so they use it while diving.

What is it a gateway to? Do the PADI standards include actually using this skill in midwater where it might actually be useful and teach them something they can use while diving?

 

[WileEDiver]

What is it a gateway to? Do the PADI standards include actually using this skill in midwater where it might actually be useful and teach them something they can use while diving?

It's a gateway to hovering.

And, yes, in Open Water, while usually called a fin pivot, the actual standard is achieve neutral buoyancy (not necessarily pivoting on the fin tips). You don't think that learning the effects of changes in lung volume is useful while diving? Interesting.