Where are the DIVE SPORTS and COMPETITIONS?

[seaducer]

Now, back to the simple point....someone or something introduced us to this sport...for those who do not have the wonderful joy of having an intelligent, articulate, passionate person like you or me in their life ....how can we legitimately, without hype, without ruining the environment, without encouraging the stupid people and undesirables that you fear will flood the sport and the water ways, without compromising the sanctity of diving.....etc., etc., is there a way to help others to consider this great sport. Your answer appears to be no....of course I disagree.

I think the people who would turn into "us", that is, passionate divers who dive more than once a year and continue diving ed. etc, will find their way in through the already available exposure. If you love the ocean and those things in it, you are no doubt aware of scuba and working torwards certification.

While there are exceptions to every rule, I do not believe there are very many avid divers who just "stumbled" onto the sport, or picked up a magfazine in line at the grocery store, saw something new and were inspired. They grew up loving the ocean and knew of scuba from a very early age. They didn't need anything other than that. Cousteau has been replaced by Blue Planet and other Discovery Channel shows, and probably there is more exposure to scuba NOW than back in the 80's when I became obsessed.

So, we move on. If your mission is an exclusive "our four and no more club", that is okay. I laugh as I hear analogies of state parks being over crowded and someone projecting that this is what will happen if we simply promote the sport we love. Our wonderful world is approximately, 78% water....we could dump us all in the ocean and never make dent....but, when we think rationally we know that will not happen.

I laughed when I read this. Here in NJ the dive boats and inlets get very crowded, already. Some boats are starting to get booked full now, you should reserve your spot for August today. Last year when planning a trip to Bonaire I had to change my preffered travel dates, as when I could get vacation the resorts I wanted to stay at were booked solid. You have to get to a shore diving location 2 hours before the tide in some cases to find a place to park. More people means THAT very real problem would just get worse. Sure, I can just swim out into the ocean any old place and see...? The vast majority of the oceans are un-diveable, if you want to see anything more than water...

Therefore, I hope those of you who love this sport...will promote this sport. I will continue to try and involve any person who has the desire, to at least explore the possibility of diving. Those of you who love the exclusive aspect of the sport, just whisper around "outsiders" as you talk about your love of the sport.....you stay on your side of the boat, and we will stay on ours, and we will all get along just fine.

Most all of us do. And the attrition rates are overwhelmed, there are more divers today than 10 years ago, for example. Just basing that on what I see when I dive. I am not sure why this post was started to begin with, personally. I don't think we need more hype, or exposure, or what have you. The only part of the industry I see that is suffering is the LDS, and IMO they brought that onto themselves. Otherwise so many of us would not have flocked to any available alternative once the internet showed up.

We certainly don't need the type of diver that putting a dive sport on TV would attract. Look at any other sport that has had that type of exposure. SCUBA X Games, bad idea...

 

[GLENFWB]

While there are exceptions to every rule, I do not believe there are very many avid divers who just "stumbled" onto the sport, or picked up a magfazine in line at the grocery store, saw something new and were inspired. They grew up loving the ocean and knew of scuba from a very early age. They didn't need anything other than that. Cousteau has been replaced by Blue Planet and other Discovery Channel shows, and probably there is more exposure to scuba NOW than back in the 80's when I became obsessed.

And there is the difference with your world view and mine...you think we have enough people diving and enough exposure, okay I can accept that. Yet, I live on the Gulf Coast, surrounded by water, and I meet people all the time who want to know more about scuba....I think the sport is important enough that we should always be looking for unique ways to promote our passion.

I laughed when I read this. Here in NJ the dive boats and inlets get very crowded, already. Some boats are starting to get booked full now, you should reserve your spot for August today. Last year when planning a trip to Bonaire I had to change my preffered travel dates, as when I could get vacation the resorts I wanted to stay at were booked solid. You have to get to a shore diving location 2 hours before the tide in some cases to find a place to park. More people means THAT very real problem would just get worse. Sure, I can just swim out into the ocean any old place and see...? The vast majority of the oceans are un-diveable, if you want to see anything more than water...

So, because one very small part of your world has crowded dive boats...that means there are already to many divers, and the oceans are over loaded? I am sorry, that is like saying because my food pantry is full at the house...everyone in the world has plenty to eat. Yes, if you concentrate divers at a resort or in your backyard, you will have a lot of divers. But, once again I would say your world is not everyone else's...and granted, neither is mine. Once again, just one simple point, I want to constantly find ways to promote this sport...I will just make sure when I do so, I tell people to avoid your part of NJ....we got plenty of room on boats here on the Gulf Coast.

I am not sure why this post was started to begin with, personally. I don't think we need more hype, or exposure, or what have you.

Because, it is a forum of ideas, thoughts, hopes, dreams....never once have I encouraged hype or sensationalism, yet we throw those buzz words around to reject the legitimate discussions. I do appreciate your perspective...I just happen to disagree with it.

We certainly don't need the type of diver that putting a dive sport on TV would attract. Look at any other sport that has had that type of exposure. SCUBA X Games, bad idea...

[/QUOTE]

Yep, bad idea...that is what is so humorous about all these replies....I have continually rejected that. The OP listed competition as one possible idea, but his main point was a discussion of ways to promote the sport we love.

Obviously, many feel no promotion is needed. That is fine....I personally hope to see the sport grow...and just as it is now, that growth will have good divers and bad divers in the group....it is the way the world works. I personally think it is short sighted to think that the way you limit bad divers is to limit the exposure scuba has to the population at large. There are plenty of threads on SB that talk about training standards....that is a whole other discussion.

 

[bfw]

Assuming for a moment that more young people is a good thing, attracting young folks to scuba will always be difficult, simply because it is so expensive.

I gotta say I don't see that as an issue. I learned to dive while working my way through an expensive private university, no financial aid, and I think one semester I talked my father into a two week loan because tuition was due and my boss was on vacation, so I didn't get paid that week. The course was effectively free, as my 16th credit hour and PE requirement, my friends and I would pool gas money to drive to the quarry with rented gear. Daily rental for a full kit, less mask and fins, was about 5 hours at minimum wage.

From my point of view, most people get into certain activities due in large part to the people around them, not necessarily because of coverage on ESPN.

Absolutely - birds of a feather.....

Additionally, while lots of people that love scuba enjoy quarries and other cold water dives, most uncertified people really only seem interested in clear, warm water.

But the cold quarry divers are the retained ones who keep diving alive.

 

[bfw]

Nope, doesn't make you evil....just really ignorant.

Actually, the word you used was elitist, and, as such, it was a classic ad hominem.
"you're an elitist, so you're bad and wrong" without ever offering any objective basis for valuing egalitarianism over elitism.

You have continually ignored the one SIMPLE point I have made...I rejected the idea of Scuba competition early on, I reject gimmicks,

Then MAYBE, you're in the wrong thread, Mr. "you're ignoring the OP." Remember, I was condemning the OP's position BEFORE you arrived on the thread, and you jumped on ME in defense of the guy who observed in a positive light that other sports are popular BECAUSE of carnage.

but here is a FACT...every one of us that are diving, had SOMEONE, or SOMETHING introduce us to the sport..

There you go shouting FACT again - to quote Inego Montoya, I do not think that word means what you think it means. I know MANY divers who were not in any way "introduced." I'm one of them. I was aware of its existence as long as I can remember, much as I was aware of automobiles and dogs. I decided early on, in grade school, absent any "inspiration" that it was one of the things I would someday do. Most of the people I dive with came to it similarly. Your FACT is not.

for those who do not have the wonderful joy of having an intelligent, articulate, passionate person like you or me in their life

I contend that those who will make good long term divers DO have such a person in their life. It's an integral part of the formative process that creates the sort of person who will sustain, rather than dabble in, diving. Such an influence in a person's life is where people get the other attributes that will make them an long term asset to diving, like an attention span of more than 3 minutes, a sense of commitment, an appreciation of effort and deferred gratification, and the ability to be happy without constant stimulation of the "these go to eleven" variety.

how can we legitimately, without hype, without ruining the environment, without encouraging the stupid people and undesirables that you fear will flood the sport and the water ways, without compromising the sanctity of diving.....etc., etc., is there a way to help others to consider this great sport.

Yes, and no. Life is a series of tradeoffs. How many others you induce is proportional to how much of that downside you get. There is no free lunch, and all growth has a cost. The best one can hope for is a happy medium compromise. A key point on which we disagree is on which side of that optimum balance the industry currently sits. The path you advocate EVENTUALLY leads to the hyped competitive circus originally implied in this thread. You seem to think it's possible to go just a little bit down that path, and stop before it goes too far, but you're kidding yourself, because when you go a little way, you start to attract more people who want to take it further, and eventually, they shift the consensus point, things go a little further, and attract bigger yahoos, who further shift the consensus point, and it's a self-sustaining cycle.

So, we move on. If your mission is an exclusive "our four and no more club", that is okay.

But it's NOT. Just because I'm not rabid about growth doesn't mean I want that. I want people to come to the sport who are thoughtful, mature, and have more attention span than a squirrel on meth. I want people who will invest time and effort, won't balk at the first difficulty, and who will make a commitment, rather than flitting off to the next trend. I want the kids who either read Harry Potter when it was just another book, before it was a craze, or else, when it was a craze, looked further down the shelf to find something different. I want people who make an objective decision about diving based on its merits, absent any consideration of how popular it is, because there is nothing so fickle as fashion, and if they blew IN to diving on the winds of fashion, they'll blow OUT of it as quickly as that wind shifts. I want people who are looking for an activity to settle down and have a future with, not just to hook up for the weekend with, and to carry the romance analogy possibly to the breaking point, I believe that means diving should read "The Rules" and not tart up like a two dollar *****.

Our wonderful world is approximately, 78% water....we could dump us all in the ocean and never make dent....but, when we think rationally we know that will not happen.

We're already depleting the fisheries of the world, which primarily occupy the pelagic zones that are over 75% of that 78%. The reefs make up less than 5% of the oceans - an area comparable to the world's land based parks, and that's where people dive.

Therefore, I hope those of you who love this sport...will promote this sport.

And I will, to the people I know, who are thoughtful, commitment minded, and not yahoos. I hope you will do the same. Certainly you must know plenty of people who fit that description and don't yet dive. As for a larger, scatter shot media promotion, no thanks.

 

[bfw]

I think the people who would turn into "us", that is, passionate divers who dive more than once a year and continue diving ed. etc, will find their way in through the already available exposure.

Just as we did, when there was far less promotion.

If you love the ocean and those things in it, you are no doubt aware of scuba and working torwards certification.

And to be blunt, if anyone is not aware, and can't figure out how to get involved, in today's world, there are only three possibilities:

1) they're too deep in poverty to have access to books, magazines, TV, the Internet, or to have leisure time, in which case, they're not going to be much help supporting the industry.

2) they can afford access to these things, and they're just too much of a moron to have any interest in anything outside their own room.

3) they're trapped in a polygamous cult somewhere in Texas and no amount of promotion will reach them until the storm troopers rescue them.

They grew up loving the ocean and knew of scuba from a very early age. They didn't need anything other than that.

That's most of the divers I know.

As for the rest of what you said, thank you for saying what I'm saying in a less colorful way that hopefully Glen can tolerate.

 

[bfw]

Yet, I live on the Gulf Coast, surrounded by water, and I meet people all the time who want to know more about scuba.

Then TELL them about it. ANSWER their questions. That one on one interaction is more meaningful than a dozen 30 second commercials during the Super Bowl, for attracting committed, sustaining members of the diving community. Look at what is promoted using conventional marketing techniques - it's products and services that are looking for a quick sale, and they don't care about what happens after that.

So, because one very small part of your world has crowded dive boats

From New Jersey to the Antilles is hardly a very small part of the world. Perhaps the Gulf Coast isn't as prime a diving location as the places he frequents.

never once have I encouraged hype or sensationalism,

But you've defended those who DID, and attacked those who opposed them.

The OP listed competition as one possible idea, but his main point was a discussion of ways to promote the sport we love.

No, he offered ONLY that, and later on, presented the carnage appeal of other sports in a positive light. You know, maybe if you read the posts you defend as carefully as the ones you oppose, you might not be taking so much flak.

I personally hope to see the sport grow.

And THAT is all the difference - the OP expressed a desire to arrest what he perceives to be a decline, based on some dubious statistics. He sought to sustain, whereas you seek growth. In that sense, the OP is more of a moderate than you.

..and just as it is now, that growth will have good divers and bad divers in the group...

No, SUSTAINING would maintain the proportion of good to bad. Unless you think diving is a hotbed of jerkdom, GROWTH would increase the poportion of bad to good.
You can't mine deeper into the bell curve and maintain the same quality.

I personally think it is short sighted to think that the way you limit bad divers is to limit the exposure scuba has to the population at large. There are plenty of threads on SB that talk about training standards....that is a whole other discussion.

And those training standards issues impact market penetration too. They're part of the same tradeoff. Passing the issue off to training standards is a cop out - you'd promote the sport only to turn people away when they can't meet the increased training standards - what kind of a cruel joke is that? Call me an elitist, but I wouldn't TEASE people with prospects they'd never realize.

 

[GLENFWB]

Actually, the word you used was elitist, and, as such, it was a classic ad hominem. "you're an elitist, so you're bad and wrong" without ever offering any objective basis for valuing egalitarianism over elitism.

BFW, if you are ever on the panhandle of Florida, give me a call. We can sit down over a good meal and work all this out....and I mean that, I will buy. In the mean time, I gave up these kinds of discussions when I left graduate school many years ago. If it is life and death, or if it is going to change my world or someone one elses, I will invest the time and effort. Obviously, this is not one of those discussions...for either of us.

Enjoy diving, enjoy life, and PM me if you get down here in God's country.

Peace