When to start DIR training?

[Runkby]

I know that I will wind up taking rescue, but I think you may be right with taking the fundamentals course first... I would definitely not use the same instructor, but one of my friends who is currently taking his DM course with padi says that his instructor is very good so I would take the rescue with him based on his recommendation. The funny thing, though, is that his instuctor that he is with for his DM course now hates tech divers and I'm assuming he would not like gue and the like .... as an aside, after i finished with my AOW class I indicated that I would eventually like to be trained to do penetration wreck dives and I brought up the 7 foot hose that all the DIR guys use... she had never heard of anyone using a 7 foot hose before and basically implied that I was an idiot for even considering it... she did, however, try to make me sign up on the spot for her padi wreck diving specialty but I didn't think that would be a good idea so I held off for the time being

 

[aquaregia]

There's a difference between hating a configuration or activity and being ignorant to it. I'd look for a different instructor, especially for something like Rescue. If you're taught that the way to take off someone's rig is to undo the quick releases you're gonna be awfully surprised if you have to ditch someone's Hogarthian. My Rescue instructor had us all wear different gear for the pool sessions just so we could think about different approaches and situations. We even pulled out an old horsecollar, but it didn't hold air.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I know that I will wind up taking rescue, but I think you may be right with taking the fundamentals course first... I would definitely not use the same instructor, but one of my friends who is currently taking his DM course with padi says that his instructor is very good so I would take the rescue with him based on his recommendation. The funny thing, though, is that his instuctor that he is with for his DM course now hates tech divers and I'm assuming he would not like gue and the like .... as an aside, after i finished with my AOW class I indicated that I would eventually like to be trained to do penetration wreck dives and I brought up the 7 foot hose that all the DIR guys use... she had never heard of anyone using a 7 foot hose before and basically implied that I was an idiot for even considering it... she did, however, try to make me sign up on the spot for her padi wreck diving specialty but I didn't think that would be a good idea so I held off for the time being

... doesn't sound like someone I would like taking a class from.

There's absolutely nothing to "hate" about any style of diving. It may not be right for her ... doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone else.

Instructors who take this approach are typically self-limiting, and while they may be good at certain things, their attitude inhibits their own development as divers and instructors.

If you feel that DIR is right for you, then someone with the attitude you describe will be the wrong instructor for you ... you'll have a constant "push-pull" dynamic going on with their personality that will prevent you from getting the most out of the class.

Different people learn ... and teach ... in different ways. Find an instructor that not only suits your goals, but also your learning style. The things you wrote above should raise some red flags with anyone who's interested in progressing to DIR ... or any other form of tech diving.

Might be a better idea to find an instructor for your Rescue class who's had some tech training ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[johnkendall]

I just recently finished my advanced open water and nitrox certs with padi and I was thinking about doing a gue fundies course next, but I also want to do rescue... should i do rescue with padi first, does gue have their own equivalent of this, or should i just go straight into the gue fundies course... i feel very comfortable in the water so far but i really think the level of instruction with padi is seriously lacking and i don't want to develop bad habits just because I never was shown the proper way

Hi Runkby,

If you take the Fundies class then you will be able to go on to take the GUE Rec 2 class. This covers a lot of rescue techniques, as well as other useful things (navigation, ascent work, use of 30/30 Triox). Rec 2 is being launched this year, so by the time you've taken Fundies and practiced a bit then it should be available.

HTH

John

 

[BB1]

I'm lucky because on of the LDS's has a really good rescue course.

The instructor is apparently very good (most important) and they don't try to rush the course.

1 day theory, 1 day pool, 2 days on a commercial dive boat so you have to do your rescue while others are on the boat diving normally. Gives added experience of people/crowd management.

Looking forward to it!

Will do fundies just after it I think.

 

[TSandM]

One thing to consider . . . if you are going to go the GUE route and dive a Hogarthian rig, I think it's best to do Rescue with an instructor who is familiar with that equipment, and to learn how to manage rescue scenarios using it. I did my Rescue class with people who weren't familiar with my gear, and I ended up on the phone or e-mailing Bob almost every night of class, to ask him questions for which they didn't have any answers. Yes, you CAN get someone out of a BP/W without cutting the harness. Yes, you CAN get a weight belt off someone when it's under the harness. You just may need some tips as to how it is best done.

Some instructors who teach technical or GUE classes also teach for other agencies, so if you want a Rescue class and you are intending to use a Hog rig, I'd look for an instructor who is or teaches technical or cave diving. Or wait, as John says, for the Rec 2 class -- but I'm not sure how many people are going to teach it.

 

[aquaregia]

Yes, you CAN get someone out of a BP/W without cutting the harness.

I'd love more info on this. Is it easier than cutting? My (jacket) BC doesn't have quick releases on the shoulder straps, and I've often told my buddies that it might be easier for them to cut it than to wrench my arms out of the holes.

Edit: We all carry EMT shears though, I imagine it might be scarier with, say, the knife in my profile picture.

 

[Griffo]

Resurrecting an old thread here....

I'm really confused about my next step in diving. The more I read, the more confused I get

I thought I wanted to go the traditional route of recreational training, but I’m becoming disillusioned with the recreational training industry.

I thought at first that SSI was offering me a slightly higher level of training than PADI, but even that seems to be falling short of what I am after. Having done the NAV + Nitrox courses, I’m not sure that I’m actually learning what I am after. Whenever I take up an activity, I like to understand the mechanics and theory behind the applied process. Not just how to read a table.

But I mostly want to be a better diver in the water. With great buoyancy skills and efficiency through the water. I want to be able to explore deep wrecks confidently, and with the right training to survive an underwater emergency, or help out my wife if she needs it. Not that I’m worried underwater now, but that’s probably just ignorance.

I’m just not getting the feeling that SSI training is going to give me the level of training that I am after. It seems very much about passing the test, not actually being a good diver, if that makes sense. There doesn’t seem to be a check on the fundamental skills, no “hey I noticed that your trim is a little off” or “hey try doing this to improve your efficiency”. Nope, it’s all focused purely on just passing the 1 or 2 things needed for that course. I was even talking to a couple of shops about training packages (doing the deep, wreck, night, rescue, DAN 02) to reduce the pocket damage, and one shop even mentioned that they’d throw in the “master diver” card. To me, simply passing a bunch of courses shouldn’t make me a “master diver” should it? I’m sure I could pass all those courses and still be an underwater hazard.

The concept of DIR diving appeals to me – I want someone to help make me a better all-round diver. The rec agencies don’t seem to offer this. Well not that I have experienced anyway. Maybe I’m using the wrong instructors?

Also, I’ve just discovered that my wifes work colleague is a GUE instructor – how convenient! However going down the GUE path will mean that I have to replace a lot of my gear. Oh how I wish someone had sold me a BPW and not a jacket!

But then there’s a bunch of cave diving near here, and everyone seems to be pushing into side-mount, which doesn’t seem compatible with DIR / GUE? Or am I mistaken? Plus due to the deep wrecks that I really want to explore, most people dive on doubles. So how do I choose a path that will allow me to maximise my diving styles while minimizing the kit variations I need to repurchase

 

[TSandM]

Sidemount is real popular right now, and for some reasonable reasons, but it's not the only way to cave dive at all, and it can be inconvenient for open water technical diving, depending on the situation.

You are lucky where you are -- I don't know if your wife's colleague is Nick Schoeffler, but I've met him, and he's a super nice guy. Be confident that, if you decide to go the GUE route, you will learn techniques and acquire equipment that will take you through all of the diving you are ever likely to do, unless you get so hooked on cave diving that you want to go crawl down sidemount passages (I love to cave dive, but I don't want to do that), or you are doing consistent sub-300 foot dives where a rebreather makes sense. And the skills you learn will serve you well, even in those situations.

If you switch to a GUE-compliant rig, the only thing you will have to do if you eventually start diving doubles is acquire another first stage, and a bigger wing. Everything else translates.

And GUE training will focus on exactly where you seem to want the help and training -- on your own personal skill in the water, and on your ability to manage task-loading and function as part of a team. It's really a very nice way to dive.

 

[Crush]

I took GUE Fundies at about 80 dives (I chose to not do the GUE primer). It was a really tough but rewarding course for me. I started a thread on my experience at http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/385289-fundies-kicked-my.html

Based on your skill level and number of dives going straight into Fundies may be a good idea. I agree - take it now.