When should one think about owning a compressor?

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While those fill stations are pretty much standard in fire departments, they are pretty rare in dive shops ... primarily because they don't work with all the tank combos available in diving. Any dive shop that can only fill using one of those systems was the victim of their own ignorance of air systems and also of a talented air system salesman. :D
 
Those who are suggesting rebreathers as a solution to this problem, can you tell me how long does a rebreather last and what is the refill mechanism? Given the cost and logistics of compressors, I am extremely tempted to go rebreather route.
 
No.... The newer fill cabinets are made for one cylinder to sit in a explosion proof box when being filled... So doing doubles is not possible... Ether you break them down or fill them with a whip from another tank.

This is just ignorant. You can not just break down doubles and fill the tanks individually. The valves are connected by a manifold. Take away the manifold and the tanks can't hold air anymore. Any shop that buys one of those contained systems that doesn't have an alternative whip for filling doubles or other tanks that don't fit in the cabinet is a shop I would avoid like the plague.
 
This is just ignorant. You can not just break down doubles and fill the tanks individually. The valves are connected by a manifold. Take away the manifold and the tanks can't hold air anymore. Any shop that buys one of those contained systems that doesn't have an alternative whip for filling doubles or other tanks that don't fit in the cabinet is a shop I would avoid like the plague.

No... Not ignorant... Not all doubles are like yours... I use a cheater doubles bar and some older manifolds can be broke down... Yes.. You are right that many newer manifolds are made in such a way that breaking them down is impossible for filling...

It seems that Insurance company's are wanting the newer cabinets for worker safety .... just one more place the lawyers are screwing things up for the little guy...:depressed:

Jim
 
I have a few cheater bars or "suicide" bars that I used to use in the past as well. Yes, these can be broken down into singles. I didn't really think of them as "doubles" and they are certainly the exception rather than the rule. I used them when travelling.

As for the insurance thing, the companies would be wiser to suggest putting the compressor in an out building like a shed and then piping the compressed air back inside to a bank of whips.
 
I think it's the exploding tank that's the problem... The place I fill at has one and the tank has to be in the " BOX " to fill and the whip will only fit on the tank in the box.. Then the box is locked closed before the cabinet will fill the tank... Stupid I know.... But it's SAFE...:wink:

Jim..
 
Those who are suggesting rebreathers as a solution to this problem, can you tell me how long does a rebreather last and what is the refill mechanism? Given the cost and logistics of compressors, I am extremely tempted to go rebreather route.

The rebreather will last several hours on a single fill depending on the model, cylinder size, scrubber size, etc. Unfortunately it may not solve your problem. You will need to fill the oxygen cylinder from a larger oxygen cylinder either via transfilling or with an oxygen booster(which requires around 150psi of compressed air to drive it). Obviously with transfilling your fills are limited to the pressure in the larger tank. You will also need compressed air(or whatever mix you choose) in your diluent cylinder. These rebreather cylinders are around 19cuft typically so it might be practical to bring several with you.
 
The rebreather will last several hours on a single fill depending on the model, cylinder size, scrubber size, etc. Unfortunately it may not solve your problem. You will need to fill the oxygen cylinder from a larger oxygen cylinder either via transfilling or with an oxygen booster(which requires around 150psi of compressed air to drive it). Obviously with transfilling your fills are limited to the pressure in the larger tank. You will also need compressed air(or whatever mix you choose) in your diluent cylinder. These rebreather cylinders are around 19cuft typically so it might be practical to bring several with you.

It's possible there might be some very simple and inexpensive solutions to mitigate the rebreather shortcomings considered in your response. Not all rebreathers rely on the use of AL19s, you could very easily choose onboard tanks up to LP27s which add about 45% more available on-board gas assuming you don't live in cave country. While 27cu/ft might not seem like a lot of gas, I would be willing to bet that with regulation fills (i.e. 2640) you could realistically get many hours with that much gas as long as you're not going up and down (rinse, later, repeat).

The use of a transfill whip is actually quite a bit more practical than it might initially seem. Often when I dive my CCR rig in barely-CCR-friendly locations I actually make arrangements for an Aluminum 80 of Diluient (say Tx21/35) and an AL80 of Oxygen to be present. Granted, I can't defy physics and totally refill my AL13s to 3,000 by transfilling them from the AL80 source tanks, but when you only need a couple cubic feet per hour of diving you reach a point where you can do one hell of a lot of diving in this arrangement. Who cares if you get a 150bar fill on the O2 side when that short fill still provides as much as 3 or 4 hours of diving. In fact, more than one dive shop around won't boost O2 to 3,000+ psi, so you'll be getting a regulation fill in some neck of the woods. Even a 100bar fill on a AL13 is well, enough to go see some stuff. There are options available with the diluient as well, in that you could use best mix of Enriched Air (low enough that you can still blow down the PO2 when necessary) which will allow you to rely less on the O2 cylinder for breathable molecules (popular approach with a few cave country instructors).

The other consideration worth mentioning is the use of off-board gas. While it's true that popular CCR tanks like AL13s, AL19s, and LP27s only hold a small amount of gas, the use of off-board gas turns a set of AL40s or AL80s into an awesome setup for some stay away from the compressor diving.

One possible configuration is mount your standard onboard tanks, and then connect off-board AL40 of breathable diluient
, and connect off-board 100% O2
and you'd have to introduce yourself to the LDS owner upon your next return. Some may caution that you'd need to carefully consider your bailout and decompression requirement such that you don't use so much diluient you can't make it back to the surface - and they'd be right.

But, with a little planning and some idea of what you're trying to do (a simple academic exercise to most CCR divers) you could configure for days of diving and only change scrubbers and perhaps move a little bit of gas around with a a whip.

In any event, the machines aren't so rigid that you have 13 or 19 cubic feet of gas and then transform into a pumpkin - there are a lot of options available to keep you away from the LDS for extended periods without hauling expedition levels of equipment.

I'm just throwing out some things to consider, especially since the rebreather can go as carry-on luggage to fascinating diving destinations far and wide.​
 

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