When No to Pass a Student

[Scott]

Realistically no student should fail during the open water checkout dives unless something dangerous happens. They should be fully prepared before that.
You can allow them to come back to a future class, provide one on one as a make up, guide them in deciding whether this is for them or not.

 

[Schwob]

I would not pass any student whom I would not feel confident allowing a loved one to dive with.

That is a good way to think of it imho. Kudos.

It would be nice if the various scuba agencies thought that way and had created their various systems such that training consistently to that level is actually assured.
That's however not at all what I have been seeing - on average - for my limited "observations".

 

[wedivebc]

That is a good way to think of it imho. Kudos.

It would be nice if the various scuba agencies thought that way and had created their various systems such that training consistently to that level is actually assured.
That's however not at all what I have been seeing - on average - for my limited "observations".

Actually I can't take credit for that quote because it is found in the SDI instructor manual, or words to that effect.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I haven't done it, but I've seen students being only certified as a PADI Scuba Diver (so diving with a professional is required). In this case, it was someone who passively panicked during the second dive. I've stopped students who got incredibly cold incredibly quickly (water was 45 F). Referrals are great for people who only want to dive on vacation anyway as sometimes getting certified at home doesn't work out.

 

[Blueringocto_73]

A little off topic, but i was doing laps in the pool at my LDS. In comes a female all geared up, I guess to practice buoyancy. She wasn't wearing fins. Who does that? She was "floundering" without "fin control". After 30 minutes she got out.

She was very focused on her computer. And bobbing around like an apple. I gave her the OK sign. No response.

 

[DevonDiver]

For PADI, students need to demonstrate "mastery" of all required skills and knowledge.

"Mastery" is defined as "fluidly, comfortably and repeatably".

I find that quite subjective, and it's a definition that gets easily corrupted when, for instance, the instructor is torn on a decision to extend a course; either having to charge the customer more money for more training, or work more days for no extra pay.

That's a problem which instructors and centers make for themselves... because they advertise/sell courses based on the bare minimum requirements (as listed in agency standards).

i.e. The Open Water course is an absolute minimum of 5 confined and 4 open water dives.

Yet, how many times do students get told that the OW course IS just 5 confined and 4 open water dives?

Assuming a 'bell curve' of student learning capabilities, there'll be a few who can "master" all the requirements in those bare minimum timescale and dives. Most will require a little longer. Some will need substantially more time and training.

A less subjective and "interpretable" definition of skills would certainly make things easier for instructors and students alike. For instance, more detailed and granular skills requirements - such as those used by agencies like GUE, who apply specificity to their standards (i.e. Hover = trim must be within 25 degrees of horizontal, with no more than +/-50cm buoyancy deviation for 10 minutes).

The other solution is to be more honest with students. Tell them they pay for training, but have to earn their certification. Make it known that its 'normal' to require more than the bare minimum training.... and the only way to pass most people within that bare minimum would be by dropping expectations on performance standards.

Recreational diving course have become "attendance" courses for most. It's a grievous betray of student trust and compromises diver safety. It's why DAN's 2016 accident report listed weak basic FUNDAMENTAL skills as the top 10 causes of dive accidents/fatalities.

 

[japan-diver]

Buoyancy control takes some time and/or additional training to master. It took me many, many dives to get the weighting, breathing, and BCD adjustments under control. I was often floating away from things, or using my arms a lot to stop from banging into things. If I remember correctly, this skill is not part of the OW course, and is beyond the scope of the instruction. I recall learning the concept, and getting a working understanding of it at only a very basic level. Some people are quick learners, and others not so much, but we all start at pretty much the same place.

Buoyancy control is definitely a part of the OW course and demonstration of control is required by every agency- now individual instructors tend to interpret this differently but any good instructor will be putting students out that can control their buoyancy - and yes this requires more than a very basic level of understanding, it however is not hard to achieve. I know my students can conduct all skills while hovering, can execute a safety stop, and even share air comfortably while hovering- and I teach in a "resort" area that students come to learn diving and we can do this is a three day course for the majority of students - those who can not do not get certified and have to come back for extra dives until they can.

 

[sheeper]

i consider myself a really good instructor (and so do my students). As good as I am the reality is that not every student passes. Every so often, I have to not pass a student.
Now don't get me wrong. I will do my best to give the student opportunity to correct mistakes and pass. I'll schedule additional dives and/or additional days for the student.
But unless the student is someone I would let my friends and family dive with, they will not pass.

 

[KatieMac]

Realistically no student should fail during the open water checkout dives unless something dangerous happens. They should be fully prepared before that.
You can allow them to come back to a future class, provide one on one as a make up, guide them in deciding whether this is for them or not.

This whole thread brought up an interesting philosophical discussion between my husband and I. I don't know the answer but maybe someone here does.

When you pay for OW at a dive shop, are you paying for
- "Open Water Certification" (in which case they are responsible for teaching you until you have adequate skills to pass or even excel)
- "Open Water Instruction" (where they are teaching you the skills and you get a cert regardless of whether or not you are competent)
- Or "Open Water Testing" (with no responsibility to spend time teaching you but will pass/fail you depending on how you did).

I'm not trying to start a war. I'm honestly just curious.

 

[MikadoWu]

This whole thread brought up an interesting philosophical discussion between my husband and I. I don't know the answer but maybe someone here does.

When you pay for OW at a dive shop, are you paying for
- "Open Water Certification" (in which case they are responsible for teaching you until you have adequate skills to pass or even excel)
- "Open Water Instruction" (where they are teaching you the skills and you get a cert regardless of whether or not you are competent)
- Or "Open Water Testing" (with no responsibility to spend time teaching you but will pass/fail you depending on how you did).

I'm not trying to start a war. I'm honestly just curious.

Your Post is perfect. I started the thread, as I am seeing in what I would call, OW Instruction.