When does a dive centre get investigated?

[borisphotosafari]

Usually a thorough investigation begins when they don’t pay their fees (joke)

That's not a joke, it's the truth.
My friend got certified a long time ago at a shop and sent his papers to PADI. No reply for months. After following up, PADI responded that the instructor didn't pay his dues and that his certification was invalid. It got resolved when the shop paid instructors dues.

 

[JackD342]

You can check member status by member number, one at a time.
PADI Pro Chek

 

[PBcatfish]

That's not a joke, it's the truth.
My friend got certified a long time ago at a shop and sent his papers to PADI. No reply for months. After following up, PADI responded that the instructor didn't pay his dues and that his certification was invalid. It got resolved when the shop paid instructors dues.

It's sort of an old joke, for at least the last 35 years, that PADI stands for Pay Another Dollar In. Their way of going to market seems to not miss an opportunity to add a fee anywhere there is an opportunity to do so. This leaves a bad taste in many mouths. It is probably one of the main reasons why several shops I have been to, that have PADI certification as well as others available, will often recommend that you choose someone other than PADI for your agency.

There are plenty of other options out there these days, but as long as PADI remains the largest &/or most well recognized, they will continue to maintain a foothold in the market. I think that they understand this very well & I think that this is a reason why they try to strong arm shops into being PADI only. It would be very good for them if the competition was no longer around or at least was marginalized.

That aside, I have yet to see a shop refuse to sell gear or fill a tank for someone with a SSI, NAUI, BSAC, or other type of non-PADI cert.

The last cert that I got from PADI was followed up by them sending me a questionnaire where they really grilled my instructor's performance. He is one of the people that can offer certs from different agencies. I am curious if that may be one of the reasons why they chose to put the heat on him as heavily as they did. By the way, I thought that particular instructor was fairly fantastic. He didn't deserve a grilling like that. He was one of the good ones.

This whole "self regulating industry" thing seems to be a very thin line away from corruption, price fixing, & collusion. That is not a knock on PADI in particular, that is a comment about the industry as a whole. The lawyers seem to be used as a political tool by those in the industry that are targeting larger market share. "getting investigated" is a good example of political pressure.

 

[Bob DBF]

It is probably one of the main reasons why several shops I have been to, that have PADI certification as well as others available, will often recommend that you choose someone other than PADI for your agency.

The recommendation may have to do more with profit margins than quality of instruction, since from your example the instructors teach for more than one agency.

That aside, I have yet to see a shop refuse to sell gear or fill a tank for someone with a SSI, NAUI, BSAC, or other type of non-PADI cert.

Other than a fill, or signing up for advanced training, I don't know of anything else for sale that would require the shop to see any certification. I had no problem getting gear or fills for almost two decades with no certification at all. As getting fills out of area was problematic, I finally certified OW, however I can still, to this day, go in any shop and buy a reg set, or other gear, and the only ID necessary is a credit card.

This whole "self regulating industry" thing seems to be a very thin line away from corruption, price fixing, & collusion.

It just eliminates the government graft out of the equation, which would increase both prices and regulations.

You can check member status by member number, one at a time.
PADI Pro Chek

It would be advantageous to know if the dive shop status was known, as one wouldn't necessarly know their instructor untill they were in class, possibly not then if multiple instructors were used for the class.



Bob

 

[JackD342]

It would be advantageous to know if the dive shop status was known, as one wouldn't necessarly know their instructor untill they were in class, possibly not then if multiple instructors were used for the class.

I know I am assuming here, but I bet that a PADI shop that is not current and renewed would not shop up on the PADI store/resort locator. Or at least not for very long.

 

[JackD342]

It's sort of an old joke, for at least the last 35 years, that PADI stands for Pay Another Dollar In. Their way of going to market seems to not miss an opportunity to add a fee anywhere there is an opportunity to do so. This leaves a bad taste in many mouths. It is probably one of the main reasons why several shops I have been to, that have PADI certification as well as others available, will often recommend that you choose someone other than PADI for your agency.

There are plenty of other options out there these days, but as long as PADI remains the largest &/or most well recognized, they will continue to maintain a foothold in the market. I think that they understand this very well & I think that this is a reason why they try to strong arm shops into being PADI only. It would be very good for them if the competition was no longer around or at least was marginalized.

That aside, I have yet to see a shop refuse to sell gear or fill a tank for someone with a SSI, NAUI, BSAC, or other type of non-PADI cert.

The last cert that I got from PADI was followed up by them sending me a questionnaire where they really grilled my instructor's performance. He is one of the people that can offer certs from different agencies. I am curious if that may be one of the reasons why they chose to put the heat on him as heavily as they did. By the way, I thought that particular instructor was fairly fantastic. He didn't deserve a grilling like that. He was one of the good ones.

This whole "self regulating industry" thing seems to be a very thin line away from corruption, price fixing, & collusion. That is not a knock on PADI in particular, that is a comment about the industry as a whole. The lawyers seem to be used as a political tool by those in the industry that are targeting larger market share. "getting investigated" is a good example of political pressure.

PADI is a business. It is not a charity, and it is not a non-profit. I continue to be surprised when I read folks faulting a business in a competitive industry for behaving like a business, and even more so for being successful at it.

Regarding your instructor's questionnaire - PADI routinely sends out random Quality Assurance surveys to students after they have been certified in a course. I have no idea how often they survey, but this is a long-standing part of the program, and explained during the process of becoming an instructor. It is not uncommon to see the Quarterly Training Bulletin touch on trends and common misunderstandings or omissions from the surveys in an effort to maintain and improve the quality of instruction, and even sometimes revise some course content based on what they find through the feedback. I also suspect (maybe we were even told) that an instructor with a problematic survey or incident report may be targeted for more survey feedback to be sure that all are on the same page going forward.

I am confident that no one singled out your instructor to "pick on" him. Sounds like you probably provided a glowing recommendation, and if I remember correctly he probably then received a "good job" communication from PADI.

 

[hroark2112]

The question is what is the nature of the report? Unless you submit a training QA report showing violations of safety or standards during training, the agencies have no way and no authority to investigate.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

The question is what is the nature of the report? Unless you submit a training QA report showing violations of safety or standards during training, the agencies have no way and no authority to investigate.

I know of one report where a dive shop was giving certifications where the course wasn't completed, uncertified students were often left alone underwater. I'm waiting to see the results. No action is an action as well.

 

[Diving Dubai]

There are plenty of other options out there these days, but as long as PADI remains the largest &/or most well recognized, they will continue to maintain a foothold in the market. I think that they understand this very well & I think that this is a reason why they try to strong arm shops into being PADI only. It would be very good for them if the competition was no longer around or at least was marginalized.

Dive shops are free agents, and a business in their own right. They choose (are not forced) to represent a specific agency because that's what they feel will be in their best interest as a business

The agencies sell training materials only. Outside of the training standards they don't make rules. Some dive shops may tell you that you need to have XX cert to do a dive (and use the excuse it's the agency rules) but its a lie

Gas fills without a certain card? Shop rule not agency

The Regional managers are just salesmen. I've seen aggressive ones turn shops to their agency (away from another) by making offers that make the shop (potentially) more profitable. RM's need to retain stores because it's a route to market for their products (training materials). Rather than being a monopoly most LDS wish that agencies would allow less affiliation to make the market less competitive (cutthroat)

 

[Blue Star Scuba]

Hi all,

Is there a limit to how many accidents a dive center can have before SSI/PADI etc take away their license or investigate the possibility? There's a place i'm aware of that are more than a little lax when it comes to safety...

Keep in mind, all dive centers are independent of PADI or whatever agency they are using to certify divers. PADI have different owners now and I believe they are less active in policing independent dive shops. Unless there is a serious standards violation and it can be proven. Try NAUI if PADI or SSI is not working.