When are we gonna learn?

[fmerkel]

For those that don't know, Race Rocks is in the Straits of Juan de Fuca, a large open body of water with the Pacific Ocean at one end and the state of Washington on the other. ALL of the water that is involved in tidal exchanges goes through there. Currents can be significant. So does a lot of the incoming weather, trapped on one side by the Olympics and the other by Vancouver Is. Winds through there can be significantly accelerated. Gale force is not uncommon, and it can come in fast. Heavy fog is another big issue.

A group from my Club did the dive. When they went in the surface conditions were fine. Currents were not an issue that day. When they came out 45-60" later there were 30-40mph winds and huge waves. Getting back on the boat was difficult and scary. They damn near swamped it. The skipper was in a near panic. Everyone stayed in full gear for the trip back, including masks on. Makes for a good story later but it was a touchy situation. All divers were very experienced with NW conditions and gear.

I've done it once over a weekend for 2 days of diving. Surface conditions were glass the whole time, with mostly minor current except for one dive. For that you hide behind one of the islands, but you need to know that and how to do it. Kelp was abundant but that can be as much advantage as disadvantage if you know how to deal with it. Sea Lions were cool but pesky.

I've stood with Bob on the shore of one of our nicer current dives and had to decide that entering in with 2-3 foot waves knocking huge drift logs around in the entry zone was just not an acceptable risk. In Puget Sound, current is a known risk at a number of sites. Wind is an unknown one until the time of the dive.

 

[Jerome O'Neil]

Anyone familiar with the site inclined to opine what minimal level of experience and training a dive there under typical conditions calls for?

There are very few places up here where current isn't an issue. Puget Sound (Vancouver's southern neighbor) frequently has tidal currents pushing 5 knots, and visibility is always at a premium. The Skookumchuck on the Sunshine Coast can get above 30 knots. So pretty much *every* dive is a timing dive.

Race Rocks, in that context, isn't all that difficult. It's a rocky sea rise just south of Victoria with some buildings where it breaches the surface. It's a fairly popular destination because it's easily reached by boat and it is in an MPA, so there are usually some critters to gaze upon.

A guy that trained and had 14 dives *in these waters* shouldn't have much problem with it. A guy that did his 14 dives over 10 years in some sandy tropical paradise might find it more than he could handle.

Edit: Victoria. All you Kanuks look alike to me.

 

[Dan]

I wouldn't go that far, it's a spectacular dive site. But like most of our best sites up here you have to pay attention to tidal exchanges and the ensuing current they produce, and plan your dives accordingly. There are many bucket list dives that are only diveable at certain times. One of the skills we teach locally that isn't part of any agency curriculum is how to use tide and current charts when planning your dives, so as to avoid putting yourself into unacceptably risky situations. But properly planned, these sites aren't particularly risky ... you just have to know when to go and when to decide that today's not that day.

I always used to tell my students that one of the most important things they can learn about scuba diving is when to say "not today" ... and around here it's not an uncommon call to have to make.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

When to say "not today" is a very good advice. After reading Canadian woman presumed dead - Roatan, Honduras, where an experienced diver skipped the normal site (shallow water) to do checkout dive due to weather & join other group to do her first dive in a site with a wall goes down to 500' deep in her 5 week dive trip vacation, ended up sank to the sea bottom without being able to be rescued by the DM, saying "not today" will definitely stick to my mind.

Also sticking with buddy during a strong current & floating up to the surface together like in the Race Rocks insident, would yield a better outcome, instead of the DM holding on to the kelp & ended up separated with the victim who was OOA & trying to remove his weights off him.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've stood with Bob on the shore of one of our nicer current dives and had to decide that entering in with 2-3 foot waves knocking huge drift logs around in the entry zone was just not an acceptable risk.

... and that was after driving 120 miles to get there. Sometimes ya just have to say "nope". Duncan Rock ... the site where TSandM disappeared ... is another one of those. It's not very far at all from Race Rocks. I've planned that dive five times, boarded the boat for four of those, actually made it out to the site twice ... and have yet to dive it.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fmerkel]

There are very few places up here where current isn't an issue. Puget Sound (Vancouver's southern neighbor) frequently has tidal currents pushing 5 knots, and visibility is always at a premium. The Skookumchuck on the Sunshine Coast can get above 30 knots. So pretty much *every* dive is a timing dive.

Race Rocks, in that context, isn't all that difficult. It's a rocky sea rise just south of Victoria with some buildings where it breaches the surface. It's a fairly popular destination because it's easily reached by boat and it is in an MPA, so there are usually some critters to gaze upon.

A guy that trained and had 14 dives *in these waters* shouldn't have much problem with it. A guy that did his 14 dives over 10 years in some sandy tropical paradise might find it more than he could handle.

Mmm, I just turned down a guy with 32 dives that wanted to do the Tacoma Narrows, high current site that can hit 6 knots, and is wind exposed in some weather. Young, fit, all dives local and in the last year. He was hot to go, it's a good site. It's my dive to host and I didn't want the responsibility/risk.

IMO, Race Rocks has a more exposed and advanced profile than The Narrows. I'd personally want some serious local and current (meant in BOTH contexts) experience for anyone with less than 100 local dives for Race Rocks. I would consider someone with 50+ that I KNEW they had their act together.

FWIW, THAT particular dive THAT day turned out to be pretty easy, but only 10' of viz. But I can't guarantee that for a high current site.

A new diver doesn't know what they don't know. Ultimately they need to take take the lion's share of personal responsibility, but for MY dives and MY risk I'm sure as hell not going to knowingly risk anyone if I don't have a pretty good idea of their capability.

And, as we all know, a diver with 14 dives is going to suck their tank down in an amazingly short period of time. That creates an additional risk.

 

[Jerome O'Neil]

FWIW, THAT particular dive THAT day turned out to be pretty easy, but only 10' of viz. But I can't guarantee that for a high current site.

That pretty much describes any given dive site, on any given day. I've passed on getting in the water at "easy" places like Mukilteo, and I've surfaced to find myself in the middle of a typhoon off of Blake Island (tip, never dive off of a sail boat in a hurricane).

Race Rocks isn't any different in that regard. On a bad day, *any* dive site is going to suck. On a good day, most dive sites are suitable for n00bs.

A new diver doesn't know what they don't know. Ultimately they need to take take the lion's share of personal responsibility, but for MY dives and MY risk I'm sure as hell not going to knowingly risk anyone if I don't have a pretty good idea of their capability.

Well, its your boat. No one gets on board without asking the Captain. I respect that.

 

[KevinNM]

I've thought about it a little more and have a hard time blaming the shop. They are after all in the dive business. A certified diver signs up to go diving; he has the appropriate credentials but maybe lacks some experience; but he does the right thing and hires a DM to be his buddy.

They were alleged to have taken his money for an experienced DM and assigned a volunteer DM who had dove the site once, a few years ago.

 

[Jerome O'Neil]

They were alleged to have taken his money for an experienced DM and assigned a volunteer DM who had dove the site once, a few years ago.

If that is the fact, then I think that it's pretty close to negligence.

 

[sunshower]

If that is the fact, then I think that it's pretty close to negligence.

I think I'd have to agree with this. That sucks all the way around.

 

[Kharon]

Incorrect
SDI requires five certifications to receive Advanced Diver not Advanced Open Water. Big difference.
SDI equivalent to AOW is Adventure Diver

The names may have recently changed. However, you completely miss the point. PADI giving a cert called advanced open water with no requirement for more than a few assorted dives with the instructor and no actual skill development is totally a misnomer.