Whats wrong with the Scubapro X-Tek Pure

[ams511]

I think i am gonna go with DSS.

I would rethink this and look around. While tbone seems to think DSS is of higher quality he gives no reasons for his opinion. A DSS wing is not constructed any better than any other wing I have seen. The corrugated hose is not a true corrugated hose. The fittings on the wing is industry standard as well as the hardware on the harness. The finish on the plate is not as good as either Halcyon or Hollis.

Scubapro is owned by Johnson Outdoors which I believe is a subsidiary of Johnson Wax. If something goes wrong you can deal with Leisurepro or them. DSS is a small local company and you need to deal with the owner who sometimes is amazing helpful and other times not. Also if you get a Torus wing there is no way to repair it other than sending it back to DSS.

---------- Post added February 17th, 2015 at 09:49 PM ----------

A friend of mine bought the X-Tek Pure system, and I remember not thinking much of it. I went to the website took and see if I could remember what I didn't like -- as I recall, the inflator hose is too long for my taste, and I don't like the big dongle off the butt dump, but I think my biggest annoyance was the weight pocket system the person had bought, which I had difficulty sorting out. The wing size is appropriate for single tanks, and the harness has the appropriate number of d-rings. If you get a screaming deal on the setup, it's probably just fine, but you might eventually want to replace the corrugated hose with a shorter one.

I think you should explain to the OP that you are a DIR diver and your complaints stem from the wing not being DIR compliant as opposed to some defect in the wing.

 

[TSandM]

Ams511, I said "I" didn't like those things. I don't. It has little to do with whether they are DIR-compliant or not; I don't like a corrugated hose that hangs down in front of me to the point where it's going to drag in the silt when I am right down on the bottom to shoot a photograph.

I have no idea what you mean by the corrugated hose on the DSS rig not being a corrugated hose. It is. It's not oval and soft like the Halcyon one, but it's a standard corrugated hose, and I have bought replacements from sources other than DSS when necessary.

DSS's plate isn't polished to a fine shine. But is shiny a useful characteristic in a backplate? I have never had a hint of rust on any of our DSS plates.

Tobin is extremely helpful, if the customer wants help. He can be very annoying if the customer thinks he knows more than he does, and more than Tobin does. I'd rather have a manufacturer who would be willing to blow a sale to avoid selling someone product with which they will be dissatisfied, than one who is politic and will sell the customer what he wants, even if it's the wrong thing.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

I would rethink this and look around. While tbone seems to think DSS is of higher quality he gives no reasons for his opinion. A DSS wing is not constructed any better than any other wing I have seen. The corrugated hose is not a true corrugated hose. The fittings on the wing is industry standard as well as the hardware on the harness. The finish on the plate is not as good as either Halcyon or Hollis.

Scubapro is owned by Johnson Outdoors which I believe is a subsidiary of Johnson Wax. If something goes wrong you can deal with Leisurepro or them. DSS is a small local company and you need to deal with the owner who sometimes is amazing helpful and other times not. Also if you get a Torus wing there is no way to repair it other than sending it back to DSS.

---------- Post added February 17th, 2015 at 09:49 PM ----------



I think you should explain to the OP that you are a DIR diver and your complaints stem from the wing not being DIR compliant as opposed to some defect in the wing.

Why should he "rethink" and look around?
If he has already decided, then pull the trigger.

I have BP/W rigs from DSS, Halcyon, and Dive Rite.
They are all comparable.

Considering that most brands are equivalent, and deciding comes down to splitting hairs; I'll chime in about what I like about DSS.

Their Ballistic nylon fabric is very nice. It a personal choice between that and the 500 Cordura nylon that Halcyon uses. There's no way any of us can quantify which is "better". But the look/feel/appearance on the ballistic fabric is nice.

The DSS OPV is better than the OEM ones that everyone else is using. Every brand of wing I have has had the OPV replaced with a DSS one.

The DSS (smooth bore) inflator hose is different that the ones that both Halcyon and Dive Rite use; but it's "six of one/half a dozen of the other" in my opinion.

The waist belt buckle on the DSS is certainly more heavily constructed that the OEM buckles that both Dive Rite and Halcyon use.

The finish on the three plates are all different. Halcyon (polished finished), Dive Rite (bead blast appearance/matte finish), Deep Sea Supply (smooth matte finish).

I really like the rubber inserts that are molded into the webbing slots of the DSS plates. I like this feature much better that the standard/OEM tri-glide method that both Halcyon and Dive Rite use.

The custom shaped tri-glides that DSS uses on their crotch strap are a nice touch also. They could have just went with the same OEM tri-glides that everyone else uses, but they chose these instead. A nice touch....a small one. But nice attention to detail.

Here are some observations:

I have seen OEM OPVs break. I've broken one myself. Not very likely to happen, but it occurs.
I have seen an OEM belt buckle bent enough that it would no longer secure webbing; also not very likely, but it has happened.

I have never seen an inner bladder from any of my wings, or my buddies wings get damaged and required any kind of self repair.
It does happen. Just because I haven't seen or experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Since deciding between BP/W setups often comes down to "splitting hairs". I feel that DSS has a lot of features (proverbial hairs) in their favor.
Considering that they are manufacturing in a higher operating cost environment; their prices are good...very good.

Most won't care; but I do like to support companies that are making products in the US, which is why I have gear from the three companies I have mentioned in this post.
I own other gear manufactured elsewhere also, so it's not a major sticking point, but I do give it some consideration when choosing.

To be honest....choosing between the three could come down to a coin toss...and personal preference for the small features and details.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[ams511]

Ams511, I said "I" didn't like those things. I don't. It has little to do with whether they are DIR-compliant or not; I don't like a corrugated hose that hangs down in front of me to the point where it's going to drag in the silt when I am right down on the bottom to shoot a photograph.

I have no idea what you mean by the corrugated hose on the DSS rig not being a corrugated hose. It is. It's not oval and soft like the Halcyon one, but it's a standard corrugated hose, and I have bought replacements from sources other than DSS when necessary.

DSS's plate isn't polished to a fine shine. But is shiny a useful characteristic in a backplate? I have never had a hint of rust on any of our DSS plates.

Tobin is extremely helpful, if the customer wants help. He can be very annoying if the customer thinks he knows more than he does, and more than Tobin does. I'd rather have a manufacturer who would be willing to blow a sale to avoid selling someone product with which they will be dissatisfied, than one who is politic and will sell the customer what he wants, even if it's the wrong thing.

Let me see: Long inflator hose, not DIR compliant. Ball at the end of the dump. not DIR compliant. Harness has the appropriate amount of d-rings, again a DIR requirement.

The purpose of a corrugated hose is so it can expand and retract like the Halcyon's, if made out of plastic it doesn't do that. Personally, I prefer Halcyon's. While shinny does not add to the usefulness of a backplate it does affect the look of the plate. Other manufacturers take the extra step of finishing the plate, DSS does not. I have never seen a modern stainless steel plate rust when properly taken care of. I have steel plates from Abyss, DSS, Hollis, Halcyon, and Apeks none of them have rust.

I am not talking about Tobin getting annoyed from "Know-it-alls", but rather him getting annoyed when people have problems with his product or service. This may not have happened to you because you are his friend, but it happened to me and from talking to other and seeing posts on here my experience is not unique.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

The DSS hose is made from rubber. It isn't plastic.
I realize you likely know this. I just figured I would clarify in case someone reading was confused by that.

Also....in fairness, DSS took a huge additional step in their plate design, with their molded rubber webbing slots.

It seems your real issue with DSS is with Tobin, and not the product.
Perhaps you are not being objective in comparing due to this issue.

Understandable I suppose....but clarify that bias as you are requesting others to do about the "DIR-ness" of their recommendations.

I'm not a friend of Tobin's. I've never met the man.

Just my view on the gear.
They are all good to be honest.

I don't think there's a bad one out there.

Lucky "Us".

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[eelnoraa]

Scubapro plate is made by Halcyon, which is a top quality plate. Especially with recent price drops, Scubapro plate can be had for $140, closer to Hollis or Dive Rite, quite a bit less than DSS and Halcyon. I think it is a good buy.

As for SP wing, I don't see anything majorly wrong at all. I do agree with TSandM. I think corrugated hose needs to be shorter. And that SP balance infiltrator should be replace by standard inflation. Total of $30. If OP get a good deal, I think go for it.

I have used backplate from DR and Halcyon for a long time and recently aqured a DSS short plate. In term of practicality, DSS does have some good features. For one, I don't believe "one size fits all" in backplate. You can only have "one size fits most" or "one size mostly fits all". Halcyon also offers 2 sizes. DSS offers 5. It is definitely easier to find a fit plate in DSS. DSS bolt on weight plate is another nice feature for cold water diver.

Here is a few things that I don't like about DSS plate I got. First, it is too flat for my taste, but I already know this before head. Second, my DSS came with the glide thing for my wife. It does work, but it doesn't works as well as Halcyon's cinch.

In term of final finish and touch, I still think Halcyon's plate is one small notch above DSS. DR plate isn't on the same league. Hollis although also have a mirror finish, it is actually finish poorly. The "mirror" doesn't even look flat from the reflection. Not like it make a difference in water, but difference is still difference.

 

[ams511]

Why should he "rethink" and look around?
If he has already decided, then pull the trigger.

I have BP/W rigs from DSS, Halcyon, and Dive Rite.
They are all comparable.

Why should the OP buy a product sight unseen? Why should he listen to proponents of one brand on an internet forum?

DSS products do have some unique features, I do not dispute that. However, I do dispute that their products are superior in quality to other brands on the market. I have/had wings from Apeks, DRIS, DSS, Oxycheq, Halcyon, HOG, Hollis, UTD. If you compare workmanship and materials I do not see where DSS is of better quality than most of these brands. In fact the DSS bladder, especially the opaque one, is noticeably thinner that the bladder in other wings (except for the DRIS). The Apeks and UTD do not have a separate bladder. I also notice that if you inflate the wings the DSS loses air the fastest and will be noticeably softer overnight. A Hollis or Halcyon will stay inflated for weeks. The OPV does use thicker cave live rather than a string but that really is not all that important to me as I usually do not wear gloves. The inflator and the rest of the hardware seems to be industry standard. The harness I did not find particularly impressive. Although DSS does throw in a knife. (Apeks has really nice hardware.) The cam bands included are plastic not metal, if prefer plastic due to the weight savings but others may prefer metal.

As far as the plates go, DSS does have some cool features, such as the ability to accept weight plates, but it is also one of the most expensive.

One nice thing about DSS is that for the past few years they kept their price the same while others have steadily increased it.

The OP is in NYC and so is Leisurepro, so he can see BP/W from Scubapro, Dive Rite, Hollis, and Manta because they are a dealer for all of them. They may be able put together a package deal at a lower price. Leisurepro does deal also.

---------- Post added February 18th, 2015 at 02:06 AM ----------

It seems your real issue with DSS is with Tobin, and not the product.
Perhaps you are not being objective in comparing due to this issue.

Understandable I suppose....but clarify that bias as you are requesting others to do about the "DIR-ness" of their recommendations.

My issue is people being cheerleaders for a particular brand and making recommendations based on nothing. The OP originally asked for information about a Scubapro Xtec, and suddenly he gets bombarded with advice to buy DSS. I have owned a whole lot of different wings and can make an objective comparison, probably more objective than most. If you want me to be more specific I will say this. Neither the shell nor the bladder are of any higher workmanship or materials than other wings I have seen on the market.

If something goes wrong with his Xtec he can deal with Leisurepro or with Scubapro. With DSS he can only deal with them.

 

[ripman3]

Wow! So what i am guessing, is to find the best deal i can find. This is all very confusing. If i can ask a question? why does everyone have so many different backplates? If they are suppsoed to be so strong and last forever. Also, it seems that everyone buys one from each supplier. Why is that?

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Why should the OP buy a product sight unseen? Why should he listen to proponents of one brand on an internet forum?

DSS products do have some unique features, I do not dispute that. However, I do dispute that their products are superior in quality to other brands on the market. I have/had wings from Apeks, DRIS, DSS, Oxycheq, Halcyon, HOG, Hollis, UTD. If you compare workmanship and materials I do not see where DSS is of better quality than most of these brands. In fact the DSS bladder, especially the opaque one, is noticeably thinner that the bladder in other wings (except for the DRIS). The Apeks and UTD do not have a separate bladder. I also notice that if you inflate the wings the DSS loses air the fastest and will be noticeably softer overnight. A Hollis or Halcyon will stay inflated for weeks. The OPV does use thicker cave live rather than a string but that really is not all that important to me as I usually do not wear gloves. The inflator and the rest of the hardware seems to be industry standard. The harness I did not find particularly impressive. Although DSS does throw in a knife. (Apeks has really nice hardware.) The cam bands included are plastic not metal, if prefer plastic due to the weight savings but others may prefer metal.

As far as the plates go, DSS does have some cool features, such as the ability to accept weight plates, but it is also one of the most expensive.

One nice thing about DSS is that for the past few years they kept their price the same while others have steadily increased it.

The OP is in NYC and so is Leisurepro, so he can see BP/W from Scubapro, Dive Rite, Hollis, and Manta because they are a dealer for all of them. They may be able put together a package deal at a lower price. Leisurepro does deal also.

---------- Post added February 18th, 2015 at 02:06 AM ----------



My issue is people being cheerleaders for a particular brand and making recommendations based on nothing. The OP originally asked for information about a Scubapro Xtec, and suddenly he gets bombarded with advice to buy DSS. I have owned a whole lot of different wings and can make an objective comparison, probably more objective than most. If you want me to be more specific I will say this. Neither the shell nor the bladder are of any higher workmanship or materials than other wings I have seen on the market.

If something goes wrong with his Xtec he can deal with Leisurepro or with Scubapro. With DSS he can only deal with them.

I didn't read the original post. I replied to the later posts.
I'm pretty objective about these, since I own a few different brands I'm not married to any of them.

I feel they are are comparable, which I stated.

There is no "better' when it comes to back plates and wings.......the damn things are all pretty close.

I think when people are saying that DSS is 'better", perhaps they are considering overall cost in their judgement call.

I get that you don't like them because Tobin pissed you off.
But being a detractor for that reason....is much the same as some of the cheer leading.

I usually dive my Halcyon...because I like it quite a bit.
But being fair.....DSS makes VERY nice gear. Anyone that has used one knows it.

I know Tobin has gotten into some pissing contests on the forum; but he has also been very helpful on here.
At least he does reply to people on the forum......perhaps it's not always a good thing, depending on who you are.

Why should the OP listen to proponents of any brand on the internet?
I have no idea........but I suppose that's why he posted, because he wanted to listen.


Cheers,
Mitch

---------- Post added February 18th, 2015 at 02:36 AM ----------

Wow! So what i am guessing, is to find the best deal i can find. This is all very confusing. If i can ask a question? why does everyone have so many different backplates? If they are suppsoed to be so strong and last forever. Also, it seems that everyone buys one from each supplier. Why is that?

Most are going to end up with a couple if they dive doubles and singles.

As for owning more than that.....most of us are diving "crack heads" and end up accumulating more crap than necessary.
How to choose:

What's your budget? That will determine your choices.

< $400...... I couldn't tell you.
Around $500....you have some more options.
>$600....Get a Halcyon............. Or get something else and keep the change for beer and some Ribeyes.

Post which one you bought and everyone can post how great your choice was.....or they will "thread crap" and tell you how they used to own the same one you just bought but their backplate split in half, and their wing blew apart at the seams.

This IS Scuba Board.

Cheers,
Mitch

---------- Post added February 18th, 2015 at 02:37 AM ----------

Wow! So what i am guessing, is to find the best deal i can find. This is all very confusing. If i can ask a question? why does everyone have so many different backplates? If they are suppsoed to be so strong and last forever. Also, it seems that everyone buys one from each supplier. Why is that?

Most are going to end up with a couple if they dive doubles and singles.

As for owning more than that.....most of us are diving "crack heads" and end up accumulating more crap than necessary.
How to choose:

What's your budget? That will determine your choices.

< $400...... I couldn't tell you.
Around $500....you have some more options.
>$600....Get a Halcyon............. Or get something else and keep the change for beer and some Ribeyes.

Post which one you bought and everyone can post how great your choice was.....or they will "thread crap" and tell you how they used to own the same one you just bought but their backplate split in half, and their wing blew apart at the seams.

This IS Scuba Board.

Cheers,
Mitch

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Wow! So what i am guessing, is to find the best deal i can find. This is all very confusing. If i can ask a question? why does everyone have so many different backplates? If they are suppsoed to be so strong and last forever. Also, it seems that everyone buys one from each supplier. Why is that?

Send me your email. I have an article on bpw's I offer at no cost or obligation. Its too big to post or send via pm. Its 11 pages with photos. Why some of us have a number of plates is different for each person. I currently have 4. Two DSS steel plates for cold water diving with singles and doubles. A steel freedom contour plate for single tanks. And an aluminum plate for when I don't need the extra weight. Depending on the dive I have some hardware differences on my steel plates. The DSS harnesses have custom double drings on the left with a loop on the bottom for carrying tools or to clip off a reel. The others have std hogarthian during setups. I use hog wings with ballistic bladders instead of those with urethane bladders. More resistant to pinch flats. So much so that they offer a ten year warranty against them. If you dive doubles and singles, especially without an sta, it becomes a minor pain in the butt to keep changing between them. Easier to just have two plates. Or more. I have the freedom plate just because I love the fit, style, and finish of it.