What to look for in a decent pony system?

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Hi all
i'm thinking of picking up a pony system to use for an under-ice training course that i am taking this winter. I dive a recular BCD with a 100cu.ft steel tank. Just wondering if someone could tell me what to look for in a good pony system. thanks!


I would suggest to reach out to the instructor that is teaching the class. I had been involved in several Ice diving classes and each class is different by who is teaching it. Some classes will have you remove your octo from the 1st stage and mandate that you have a 19cf or larger pony bottle with a cold water reg attached. This is a true secondary source. Your octo could cause a free flow or if you need to buddy breath with your octo due to a free flow , your first stage could very well free flow your buddies regulator due to both of you breathing off of one tank and now you have both divers in a free flow situation. Some courses will require a octo though and dont mandate a pony.

When I ice dive, I will sling my 19cf so that it can be handed off to my dive buddy in case of a free flow. Because of this, I have a pressure gauge on a short hose taped to the regulator hose( I do this just to streamline the two hoses). Since it could become a primary tank and I would wont to know how much air I am using from my pony tank to get back to the "hole". Even on my OOA drills, I find that my stress increases and I consume more air than normal. By having a pressure gauge, I can see my air consumption and if I am using my air at a much faster rate than I normally would and I can tell myself to SLOW DOWN and RELAX. Without a gauge, you sometimes dont even know how stressed you are and how much air you are using. I had seen a many people ice dive without a true redunent air supply ( relaying on each others octo only) and I wouldnt suggest it. Only one bail out bottle is really needed on each dive to have a true redudent system.
 
I think the reasoning behind no SPG if it is being used as a backup and not as a stage bottle is that the only time you will be using it is in the event of an emergency and at that point your dive will be turned. You either have enough gas to safely get out or ascend or you don't. If you don't, the SPG would only tell you how quick your demise is coming.

Miranda

*sent fromPalm please excuse any formatting issues


If you are ice diving, you have an overhead enviroment and you arent simply able to perform a CESA. I line out to 150 feet when ice diving and you could have an etanglement or just plain ole stress can increase the air consumption. It does help to know how much air you have remaining in your bail out bottle when swimming for the ice hole for stress management reasons.
 
I would suggest to reach out to the instructor that is teaching the class. I had been involved in several Ice diving classes and each class is different by who is teaching it. Some classes will have you remove your octo from the 1st stage and mandate that you have a 19cf or larger pony bottle with a cold water reg attached. This is a true secondary source. Your octo could cause a free flow or if you need to buddy breath with your octo due to a free flow , your first stage could very well free flow your buddies regulaotr due to both of you breathing off of one tank and now you have both divers in a free flow situation. Some courses will require a octo though and dont mandate a pony.

When I ice dive, I will sling my 19cf so that it can be handed off to my dive buddy in case of a free flow. Because of this, I have a pressure gauge on a short hose taped to the regulator hose( I do this just to streamline the two hoses). Since it could become a primary tank and I would wont to know how much air I am using from my pony tank to get back to the "hole". Even on my OAA drils, I find that my stress increases and I consume more air than normal. By having a pressure gauge, I can see my air consumption and if I am using my air at a much faster rate than I normally would and I can tell myself to SLOW DOWN and RELAX. Without a gauge, you sometimes dont even know how stressed you are and how much air you are using. I had seen a many people ice dive without a true redunent air supply ( relaying on each others octo only) and I wouldnt suggest it. Only one bail out bottle is really needed on each dive to have a true redudent system.

thanks this was verry helpfull. pretty much exactly what i wanted to know.
 
Hi all
i'm thinking of picking up a pony system to use for an under-ice training course that i am taking this winter. I dive a recular BCD with a 100cu.ft steel tank. Just wondering if someone could tell me what to look for in a good pony system. thanks!

Just out of curiousity, what agency are you using and where are you taking your Ice class?.
 
I am certified with SSI, but I would take the ice class with NAUI (not quite sure what the abreviation stands for) with some guys from my scuba club. they are all current or ex navy divers, so they know their stuff.
 
I like the idea of a button guage. It deffinately makes sense to put a guage on the pony bottle,but having a full sezed one floating around might be a little annoying. Here's another question. Do you guys empty and refill you ponies on any kinf of a schedual? lets say you dive with a pony all the time, but you have never had to use it. would you just keep it full? or empty it and refill it say, once a season if you never have to use it.
George,

First, since you're diving with a bunch of more experienced divers who "know their stuff", what are these experienced guys using for pony bottles?

Second, your question above is a good one. Lots of guys with pony bottles never practice with them. Then when something happens they're over there doing the random freak boogie because they aren't sure whether to crap or go blind.

If you're going to have one to begin with, make an effort to practice with it each dive. Deploy the thing when you start your ascent and come up on it. If its an adequate supply, you'll make it up without incident. If it isn't an adequate supply, better to find out while practicing with it than under real world emergency conditions.

One small point:

In a real world "I may actually die in the next 15 minutes" situation your breathing rate skyrockets, your heart begins pounding, and you start burning through gas like you can't catch your breath. Your respiratory rate and gas consumption may actually double, from something like .6 or .7 cfpm to 1.3 cfpm or higher.

A 20 cu ft bottle that will do nicely for a laid back 60' ascent on a lazy summer afternoon at the lake might leave you sucking dry in a real world crapstorm.

Rather than picking the bottle first, and then finding out how much gas it will hold, you might try a different approach.

Find out how much gas you'd consume per minute during an emergency? (Round up to about 1.5 cubic feet per minute.) Find out how many minutes you may need to be on the bottle (it will be situationally dependent based on how deep/where you dive)? Lets say 100', which is 4 ATA (atmospheres absolute). If you dick around trying to figure out why the world just went to crap at 100' for two minutes, and get your buddy's attention and thumb the dive (one minute), then you decide to head up at a controlled rate of 30 feet per minute (fpm), it will take you ~six minutes total to reach 10'. Suppose you spend a safety stop there for three minutes, then ascend to the surface, which adds another four minutes, for a total of around ten minutes on the bottle. Thats about 15 cubic feet of gas required @ 1.5 cfpm for 10 min. - in which case the bottle you picked would work.

But you can easily see how needing a few more minutes at 100' to unscrew a situation or find your buddy and communicate, (which is why you might need a pony bottle to begin with - the fact that your buddy is not reliable) etc., or having to swim back to an upline before ascending if you're on a charter boat, or needing time to untangle yourself if you're caught in monofilament or a net, etc. can quickly drive your emergency gas requirements above 20 cubic feet.

Take a minute to jot down your worst case scenario, based on where you're located, how you're diving, your buddies input, etc. Lay out your needs. Based on your projected needs, calculate your gas requirements. Then get a bottle to match your needed gas supply. For the moment, if you're going to get a small bottle consider getting a Luxfer aluminum tank in either 19 or 30 cubic feet. (Luxfers offer superior characteristics if you ever want to sling it.) The rest can be worked out depending on what you think will work best for you.

Just FWIW. YMMV.

Doc
 
well that gave me allot to think about... again, thanks, i'm glad I asked this question before I bought anything. let's change the subject for a tick and talk about regulators. Idealy i'd like to get a good cold water reg. how do we feel about teh zeagles as cold water regs? my instructor swears by scubapro regs, even the cheap ones liek the MK 2/R190, as great cold water regs. I was wondering what you guys think about such regulators or if you had any suggestions of your own... if it makes any difference my main is a SP MK25/S600.
 
I love Zeagle's for cold water. I've had my DSV under ice, on dozens of dives in the low 40's, and I have never once had a freeflow or anything but rock solid performance. I just ordered 2 Flathead VI's for my doubles. Definetly my favourite regs.
 
I don't know about the ice factor but I'm selling a complete pony tank 2nd air source package I put together last December for a trip I took to Palau- 19 cu/ft, tigar gear, ect, see ebay link under my profile.

I've also seen some set ups that use a wireless multi gauge system off thier computers for multiable tanks- good luck with your quest- Ice diving sounds cool-
 
well that gave me allot to think about... again, thanks, i'm glad I asked this question before I bought anything. let's change the subject for a tick and talk about regulators. Idealy i'd like to get a good cold water reg. how do we feel about teh zeagles as cold water regs? my instructor swears by scubapro regs, even the cheap ones liek the MK 2/R190, as great cold water regs. I was wondering what you guys think about such regulators or if you had any suggestions of your own... if it makes any difference my main is a SP MK25/S600.

For the record, I dive MK25/S600 as my primary regs also, and love them dearly. I would NEVER take them ice diving, however. The MK25 is known for having issues with extremely cold water, and it could very well freeze up and freeflow on you. You'll want to give serious consideration to using a different 1st stage (such as the MK17).

I believe I have heard the MK2/R190 combo works quite well as cold water pony regs.
 

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