What to do if . . .

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boulderjohn:
If you are going to be doing a lot of deep dives with deco stops, you should prefer the Navy tables, because they are more likely to pertain to you. The average recreational diver will do just fine with the PADI tables. That was the intent from the start.

Though I know a few "older" divers who still carry a copy of the navy tables because they are familiar with them, I don't know very many divers who plan staged decompression dives using the navy tables these days. They certainly wouldn't be my first choice.
 
MikeFerrara:
Though I know a few "older" divers who still carry a copy of the navy tables because they are familiar with them, I don't know very many divers who plan staged decompression dives using the navy tables these days. They certainly wouldn't be my first choice.

I have never used the Navy tables for anything, and I don't personally know anyone who does. I can't comment one way or another on this. My explanation was strictly from an academic background--"by the book."
 
MikeFerrara:
In a nutshell, any [dive] where the PADI table calls for emergency decompression of 8 or 15 minutes at 15 feet is going to be one that I would rather be starting my decompression deeper...so, if you're diving the PADI table, stay away from those "NDLs".

[Note: for clarity purposes, I edited what I thought was an obvious typo above; please pardon me if I was wrong.]

My guess is that changes in his are in the offing based upon recent research that was not available when those tables were made. The recent DAN study, for example, clearly shows that a deep stop is very beneficial in all dives, not just for a deco dive. I do a deep level stop for any dive other than a relatively shallow dive in which I did not even come remotely near NDL's.
 
To the OOP: I would suggest breathing 100 02% on the boat. You do have a Dan kit right? Have your buddy give you the 5 minute neuro exam. If you are symptomatic, go to the nearest chamber. In water recompression is not recommeneded. There is really no excuse for running out of breathing gas and missing a stop. TSandM wisely suggested to get more training. I concur.
 
I guess I qualify as one of those “older divers.” I still dive Navy tables. Why – because they are much better tested than other set of tables and they are more suited to the type of diving that I do.

Here is the Navy procedure for Omitted Decompression:

1) Surface at normal rate.

2) If asymptomatic and capable of returning to the water within 5 min. of surfacing then return to the depth of the omitted for 1.5 time the initially required decompression.

3) It the diver can not return to the water within 5 min, then a min. of 60 min. of oxygen is called for.

4) If asymptomatic after 60 mins of Oxygen the diver should be observed for 12 hours (no diving, of course).

5) If symptomatic, transport on oxygen to nearest medical facility.

6) If asymptomatic and unable to return to the water for omitted decompression, and a chamber is within 1 hour, transport to chamber.

You will find that the 15 at 15 is actually a Navy recomendation for a diver who has exceeded the Navy no-D limits and does not have access to a set of in-water tables.

When I plan a no-D dive I still check out the decompression that would be required if I go deeper or stay longer and and write that out on a slate (I went over that procedure in a another thread). I carry a set of in-water tables and since I always make a 3 min stop at 1/2 my max depth, I can check them there.
 
Indeed, If you are going to diving a profile that requires a 15 minute stop, but aren't prepared for the dive, then it shouldn't be done. You should have enough gas on your back so that you can complete the dive and still have enough gas for an emergancy. You should have a redudant gas source and know how to use it properly (such as double banded tanks and isolation manifold, with two regulators). Most of all you shouldn't be in that position with out the proper training. As other's have stated that dive profile can be very dangerous if done improperly.
 
boulderjohn:
[Note: for clarity purposes, I edited what I thought was an obvious typo above; please pardon me if I was wrong.]

My guess is that changes in his are in the offing based upon recent research that was not available when those tables were made. The recent DAN study, for example, clearly shows that a deep stop is very beneficial in all dives, not just for a deco dive. I do a deep level stop for any dive other than a relatively shallow dive in which I did not even come remotely near NDL's.

Yes. Even the DAN study came a little late and many of us had a "well duuuuuh" reaction to it. Other models, buhlmann (old and pretty well tested) with gradient factors applied using decompression software, VPM, RGBM ect were all pretty widely used long before that DAN study. All of those will result in stops starting deeper and in some cases more total decompression. Even straight buhlmann isn't going to let you do a 10 minute 130 ft dive as a no stop dive...that "NDL" is a moving target and from table to table (even for recreational depths and times) could vary by 40% or so. Would the real NDL please step forward?

Additional factors that make models/tables other than the navy tables attractive is the common use of helium mixes and/or multiple gasses for accelerating decompression.

Personally, in almost all cases, including little dives that only require a little bit of decompression time, I prefer to have at least one decompression gas and redundant breathing equipment. Anytime you are in a situation where you would consider staged decompression manditory you can't afford to run out of gas. Generally speaking, I would consider a "recreational dive" (using common terminology) one where you are shallow enough and far enough from an "NDL" that an immediate ascent is a viable way out. Get too deep or have an overhead (real or virtual) and it becomes a "technical" and you should treat it as such.

All that was a long way of saying that I don't plan 20 minute 100 ft dives or 10 minute 130 ft dives (a couple PADI NDLs) as no stop recreational "dives". If there's anything worth seeing or doing that would put me anywhere near there, it's much more enjoyable to have the right equipment and gas so that I can relax and enjoy the dive without comming close to any of the limits of my plan (time or gas). On the most basic level, any sensible gas plan for any dive is going to have you ending your dive with at least twice as much gas as you plan on needing for your ascent (enough for you and a buddy).

The fact that we see questions like this on the board at all, IMO, is an indication of a very real problem and that is that gas management is rarely taught at any level of recreational dive training. They tell you to watch your SPG but don't tell you how to figure what you need to actually complete the dive or have enough for unplanned events. So, great you're looking at the SPG, now what? Get out with a few hundred psi left? Why? When do you start back/up? What if you have to donate gas to your buddy during the trip back or the ascent, do you still have enough? The answers to those questions belong in every entry level diving text. then we wouldn't have to worry about having enough gas for a few minutes of additional decompression even if we have to share our gas with a buddy.

Of course, even though the math needed for such gas management is pretty simple, some of the ten year olds currently enrolled in scuba classes might have some trouble with it. I guess the current industry answer is to watch your SPG and stick close to your DM guide and hope that he has a plan.
 
serambin:
While preparing for another summer of diving, I was looking through my PADI OW manual and noticed that in a section on required stops, that if you exceed your maximum by 8 minutes on a no decomp dive, you need a stop of 15 minutes at 15 feet. My question is if your air supply will not allow a 15 minute stop, but you have a spare tank on the boat, should you surface, re-tank, and return to 15 feet? And if so, for how long?
While there is an ommitted decompression procedure that does work, too many things have already gone wrong on this dive.

Get on the boat and breathe O2 (or the hottest mix available if there is no O2).
 
Thanks for the link Thal. So if you had to, you could surface for 15 seconds and let them know you need another tank and return to 15 or 20 feet and finish your stop?
 
Pay close attention to the warnings (e.g, asymptomatic!). This is not a substitute for proper decompression, this is a way to try and make the best out of a very bad situation. Better still would be to not get into this spot, but if you did go back down to 15 with a rich mix.
 

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