What To Do About Reckless Divers?

[captain]

Wasn't there a thread at some point about how much water would get into a tank if it had less than xxx psi? You're right, a hard and fast rule about anything in diving is usually silly.



Unbalanced regulators USUALLY cannot get as much air out of a cylinder than a balanced reg. Again, not a hard and fast rule, but I can breath a cylinder down to about 80 PSI on the surface with my T1. My old Sherwood was good to about 200 PSI before I couldn't get anything out. And nope, most divers have never heard of dropping a weightbelt either. I am constantly amazed at the number of weightbelts we rescue on the surface.

Frank

Considering the first stage of any regulator is normally open until the IP set pressure is reached. Once the tank pressure drops to or below IP set pressure the first stage will be wide open and remain so and air would flow until the tank was empty or equal to surrounding ambient pressure.

At 500 psi you would have to be at a depth of 1100 feet before water could possibly enter the tank.

 

[Web Monkey]

I planned 135 for 30 minutes, deco on 70% and was surprised to hear that three others would dive similar profiles... HP100s with no redundancy and flying computers the whole way.!? It should be said these divers are seasoned veterans with 1000s of dives and posses a bit of seniority on the boat- nevertheless, it concerned me a bit when one showed me 500psi with 10 minutes of hang time to go...:depressed:

As 'experienced divers', they obviously knew what they were getting into so i elected to mind my business

What would YOU do?

Ignore them and do my dive. With "1000s of dives" they've probably done this exact dive dozens of times and know what they're doing.

If I had enough extra gas, I'd probably hang out for a while and watch, since it's always really cool watching really experienced guys dive.

If they were a sprayed-with-glue-and rolled-though-a-dive-shop crowd, I'd probably quietly hang out until they surfaced in case someone ran OOA and needed to share.

Terry

 

[HowardE]

I shouldn't have (or maybe didn't) imply that having 500psi back on the boat was much of a problem, especially with a seasoned group- Maybe violating some arbitrary PSI reserve on a no-stop dive is not irresponsible, but would you agree that maintaining thirds during a deco profile IS responsible?

How much deco did they have? 10 minutes? 30 minutes?

If it were me, and just guessing at a dive plan for this dive... let's say - 28% nitrox for 30 minutes at 135 feet. It would be about a 60 minute run time.

A single 100 would not be enough gas for me to do this dive.

But we're just guessing at what their dive plan is/was. What was their plan?

Now... If I was flying my computer. I would bet that you probably didn't spend an actual 30 minutes at 135 feet, and that the deco schedule was considerably shorter.

At the same time. If you're just looking for a yes or no answer... There isn't one. If they ran my dive plan, and came to the 20' or 10' stop with only 500 psi, then I would say the plan was probably somewhat flawed.

Especially with more divers then just immediate team members in the water?

That would mean there's more available gas. Again... not a great idea, but I wouldn't classify this as reckless.

 

[Gombessa]

Considering the first stage of any regulator is normally open until the IP set pressure is reached. Once the tank pressure drops to or below IP set pressure the first stage will be wide open and remain so

You lost me there, cap. The first stage stays open until it reaches IP, at which point it stays open?

 

[Ana]

...
Maybe violating some arbitrary PSI reserve on a no-stop dive is not irresponsible, but would you agree that maintaining thirds during a deco profile IS responsible?

Maintaining thirds IS responsible during a deco profile and any other profile too. Having a line hanging from the boat for the deco stop is responsible. Leaving a bottle or two tie up to said deco line is responsible.
The things above are reasonable items that belong in a responsible dive plan, I wouldn't describe neither one as an overkill, but that doesn't make the missing of one or all items irresponsible or reckless. Different divers make different plans depending on many factors.
On size does not fit all.

Especially with more divers then just immediate team members in the water?

The Hole in the Wall may require to engage the brain more that a 30' foot drift on the reef, however let's keep things on perspective. For many locals that is the 1st dive of every weekend if the conditions allow it. That fact doesn't give them a green light to be unsafe, but why should they change their plan just because there are other divers in the charter boat?

 

[*dave*]

Your SAC is but one element in the equation. That reserve you're supposed to be surfacing with is for your buddy. You may have a SAC of zero, but what about your buddy?

Fare enough, i can respect that response.
As for having a low SAC and yet draining a 119 there is a difference between sitting at safety stop and wrestling an AJ or cobia. One takes a lot of air one doesn’t. but your right 250 is lower than I like to go, yet hitting the boat with more than 500 in my tank is a waste of air. With a 119 500psi is a long time. Of course there are other factors, how many times you’ve dove that site, current, ext. My comment was based off where I dive and a low current day. I’m not trying to tell you how to dive just explaining myself.

 

[Amazz]

Calling these divers reckless is inappropriate. I happen to know many on your dive. They are NOT reckless divers. They can dive this dive on steel 100s without redunancy safely if they so wish. I have done it myself safely many times. It's all about gas consumption and nitrogen loading. If you follow the rules there is no issue. If one diver reached 500 psi during a 10 minute deco stop, well that may or may not be an issue. He or she needs to speak to his/her maker in the end.

 

[bamamedic]

On a recent trip to the Hole-in-the-Wall in Jupiter I had the pleasure of diving with some really aggressive and reckless divers. For those who dont know, HITW is a deep dive into a short overhead cave around 130-140FSW and subject to swift currents.- beyond recreational limits for sure

I planned 135 for 30 minutes, deco on 70% and was surprised to hear that three others would dive similar profiles... HP100s with no redundancy and flying computers the whole way.!? It should be said these divers are seasoned veterans with 1000s of dives and posses a bit of seniority on the boat- nevertheless, it concerned me a bit when one showed me 500psi with 10 minutes of hang time to go...:depressed:

As 'experienced divers', they obviously knew what they were getting into so i elected to mind my business

What would YOU do?

I guess, for me it would depend on if they were my dive partners. If they were, we'd have a pre-dive chat about those sorts of things...because I depend on my teammates for redundancy to some degree (plus, I don't want to have to deal with two OOG divers with a deco obligation to boot!)

If they were not my dive partners...I might ask them about their dive plan, simply because I like to learn, but ultimately, it's their concern, not mine. If I come across like a self-righteous putz, I won't learn anything and neither will they, but a few friendly questions might put everyone's minds at ease.

Everyone has different levels of acceptable risk....

 

[Shcubasteve]

Calling these divers reckless is inappropriate. I happen to know many on your dive. They are NOT reckless divers. They can dive this dive on steel 100s without redunancy safely if they so wish. I have done it myself safely many times. It's all about gas consumption and nitrogen loading. If you follow the rules there is no issue. If one diver reached 500 psi during a 10 minute deco stop, well that may or may not be an issue. He or she needs to speak to his/her maker in the end.

You are right. After some valid explanations presented here, I will apologize for my choice of words- reckless might have been inappropriate.

 

[Uraluni]

How much deco did they have? 10 minutes? 30 minutes?

A single 100 would not be enough gas for me to do this dive.

But we're just guessing at what their dive plan is/was. What was their plan?

Now... If I was flying my computer. I would bet that you probably didn't spend an actual 30 minutes at 135 feet, and that the deco schedule was considerably shorter.

This part is what got me confused right from the start. There's no way someone was down at 135' for 30 minutes on a single 100. It also makes the whole story sound a bit bogus unless they were perhaps doing multi-day dives.

Was it a real deco stop when the guy had 500 psi, or just a safety stop? Even if it were a 10 minute stop for a deco hang time, 500 psi may not be hardly ideal given unexpected issues that may arise...but I've seen many people do just that. I don't do that, but I've seen enough people who do to make me think twice if I'm being too conservative. Perhaps not though...I like to get back on the boat with some gas in my tanks. Even when I'm diving with my doubles, I get paranoid when I get near 500 psi.