What To Do About Reckless Divers?

[zaberman1]

This is a perfect example of the hubris of youth.

Although I agree that this is VERY reckless, I wouldn't consider his poor practices are due to age...just sheer ignorance...

Its sad to read posts that will one day be bumped to the accident and incident forum

 

[brockbr]

On a recent trip to the Hole-in-the-Wall in Jupiter I had the pleasure of diving with some really aggressive and reckless divers. For those who dont know, HITW is a deep dive into a short overhead cave around 130-140FSW and subject to swift currents.- beyond recreational limits for sure

I planned 135 for 30 minutes, deco on 70% and was surprised to hear that three others would dive similar profiles... HP100s with no redundancy and flying computers the whole way.!? It should be said these divers are seasoned veterans with 1000s of dives and posses a bit of seniority on the boat- nevertheless, it concerned me a bit when one showed me 500psi with 10 minutes of hang time to go...:depressed:

As 'experienced divers', they obviously knew what they were getting into so i elected to mind my business

What would YOU do?

I'm a big believer in "live and let live". It's none of my business how someone wants to dive, and I wouldn't say a word to them about it...

...unless...

I thought that they could possibly put me in jeopardy.

What I mean by this is simple -> If I will be anywhere in their proximity on deco, then I start asking questions. Since they're coming up the line, I'd assume I will be in their proximity, thus anything that goes wrong could easily effect me. I don't carry the gas supplies and plans that I do so that some foolish soul can have my son wondering why his dad didn't come back.

But, I honestly think that being pleasant, always assuming they're right first, and simply talking with them pre dive is usually more than enough to address any problems. I have yet to have this not work out. On more than one occasion I've helped them add a cylinder or dropped another on a line as a safety bottle.

( Also, anyone watching me splash in would see that I fly by my Pursuit and have a backup BT (sometimes 2). What they may not notice is the Reg/Half/BO plans written out on white tape on the side of my computer, along with constant pO2 and OC tables in my drysuit pocket. )

b.

 

[Wookie]

The 500 psi back on the boat "rule" is totally bull. Maybe with an AL 80 and new divers it's somewhat important for them, but in an HP 100... How much GAS is 500psi? And at shallow depths... fully relaxed ... how long will that last?

Howard, if 24 of you and your buddies were the divers, I would totally agree. We do not make a rule that you have to be back on the boat with 500 PSI, our rule is you must be back on the boat with breathable air in your cylinder. What happens to the guy who surfaces with 200 PSI diving an unbalanced regulator and finds that the surface conditions have deteriorated, both ladders have a line of 2-3 waiting, the boat is swinging like a game of crack the whip, and both divemasters are rescuing a guy who is out of air and in full panic. You might wait 5-10 minutes for that CF to get sorted out. Oh, the guy with 200 PSI in his tank with the crappy regulator has on 24 lb of lead and a 3 mil wetsuit.

It happens on the Spree about 4 times per year. If you're diving from your own boat, or a six-pack, well and good. For me, I want enough air at the surface to fill my wing at least a couple of times, and fill my big sausage so the boat can find me when I come up down-current, alone, and drifting. Hasn't happened yet, but I always try to plan for the worst.

Frank

 

[HowardE]

Frank. I wasn't recommending that people come up with 200 psi. I was just referring to the OP's comment on the 500 psi. How irresponsible is it in this case? 500 psi at the stop means - 400 psi on the surface? I wouldn't call that completely irresponsible or reckless.

We all must make considerations of the situations we're in for that dive. A drift dive in a strong current, where I may have to wait 5-10 minutes for a pickup is totally different than a wreck dive on a moored, anchored, or grappled line.

As for the 500psi rule... I've even heard some shops go as far as to say that if you return with less than 500 psi, we'll have to VIP your tank, and charge you for it?

 

[captain]

Howard, if 24 of you and your buddies were the divers, I would totally agree. We do not make a rule that you have to be back on the boat with 500 PSI, our rule is you must be back on the boat with breathable air in your cylinder. What happens to the guy who surfaces with 200 PSI diving an unbalanced regulator and finds that the surface conditions have deteriorated, both ladders have a line of 2-3 waiting, the boat is swinging like a game of crack the whip, and both divemasters are rescuing a guy who is out of air and in full panic. You might wait 5-10 minutes for that CF to get sorted out. Oh, the guy with 200 PSI in his tank with the crappy regulator has on 24 lb of lead and a 3 mil wetsuit.

It happens on the Spree about 4 times per year. If you're diving from your own boat, or a six-pack, well and good. For me, I want enough air at the surface to fill my wing at least a couple of times, and fill my big sausage so the boat can find me when I come up down-current, alone, and drifting. Hasn't happened yet, but I always try to plan for the worst.

Frank

Never heard of swimming skills and oral inflation, huh. And what does an unbalanced regulator have to do with anything.

 

[Ana]

When diving the same site at the same time, I would expect at some points to be close enough that another diver could easily come to me and show me their SPG (particularly while ascending/descending a line). I wouldn't turn away from anyone who is obviously trying to communicate with me, and I would offer assistance if it were needed.

That's very nice, you know what you would do, why expect that everyone would do the same?
Unless you and I know each other, it will be a waste of time to expect that we'll be close enough to see each others' gauges during a dive. You do your dive I'll do mine.
If you think you're going to need a person during the dive, bring someone with you from the beginning.

Well, that is a rather selfish attitude. Don't avoid divers that you think *may* get into difficulty. I would not go out of my way to stay tight with them, but that is a kinda callous attitude.

As these guys were experienced divers, it maybe your butt they end up helping!

On my dives: I don't avoid divers I think "may" get into difficulty, I avoid "all" divers unless I agreed in advance to dive with them. So is it a selfish attitude? maybe, isn't it selfish to think someone will stop their thing and be willing and able to assist? I'm not applying for the "Mother Theresa" vacancy. There are selfish people in many places, dive boats are not an exception.

I'm glad Shcubasteve minded his own business and didn't go on lecturing this group with his better technique to do this dive.

Contrary to popular believe, "Hello, good morning" is not code for "I want to know everything about your diving" it is just a greeting. Selfish people don't necessarily like to be rude, but sometimes we just have to.

On this dive from a charter boat. I would've plan my dive with my buddy or with myself, and would've never known other divers plans. Others mentioned that stopping an accident from happening would save them from missing the second dive. That could be true but the way I see it, is like trying to stop the weather from happening. Several factors will stop the 2nd or 3rd dive of the day, people getting hurt is one of them I accept that.

 

[djtimmy77]

Well, that is a rather selfish attitude. Don't avoid divers that you think *may* get into difficulty. I would not go out of my way to stay tight with them, but that is a kinda callous attitude.

As these guys were experienced divers, it maybe your butt they end up helping!

Not everyone feels the need for reserve/emergency gas, even if I don't agree with that. The fact that they were diving as a team also introduces some built in redundancy.

My dive crew is pretty selfish about keeping hazards to our group minimized, I'll admit to that. Of course this is based upon self-preservation and their experiences in the past. We generally try to keep distance with most divers. With 4 people in our group, 3 of whom are very well trained and experienced divers (I'm the newbie) I would hope that we have a decent level of redundancy to get ourselves out of trouble.

 

[Wookie]

As for the 500psi rule... I've even heard some shops go as far as to say that if you return with less than 500 psi, we'll have to VIP your tank, and charge you for it?

Wasn't there a thread at some point about how much water would get into a tank if it had less than xxx psi? You're right, a hard and fast rule about anything in diving is usually silly.

Never heard of swimming skills and oral inflation, huh. And what does an unbalanced regulator have to do with anything.

Unbalanced regulators USUALLY cannot get as much air out of a cylinder than a balanced reg. Again, not a hard and fast rule, but I can breath a cylinder down to about 80 PSI on the surface with my T1. My old Sherwood was good to about 200 PSI before I couldn't get anything out. And nope, most divers have never heard of dropping a weightbelt either. I am constantly amazed at the number of weightbelts we rescue on the surface.

Frank

 

[Shcubasteve]

Thanks to all who responded...

Frank. I wasn't recommending that people come up with 200 psi. I was just referring to the OP's comment on the 500 psi. How irresponsible is it in this case? 500 psi at the stop means - 400 psi on the surface? I wouldn't call that completely irresponsible or reckless....

I shouldn't have (or maybe didn't) imply that having 500psi back on the boat was much of a problem, especially with a seasoned group- Maybe violating some arbitrary PSI reserve on a no-stop dive is not irresponsible, but would you agree that maintaining thirds during a deco profile IS responsible? Especially with more divers then just immediate team members in the water?

 

[Gombessa]

Without commenting on whether the divers observed by the OP were reckless or not (I have no idea, suffice it to say that type of dive is outside my training, desire and level of comfort), if there were divers who seem clearly reckless to me on my boat, I would have to say that it would on a subtle level add to my stress of the day. It may impact my dive plan (let's stay away from these guys, let's reserve a bit more gas in case something unexpected happens and we need it), it would make me wonder if the boat had sufficient O2 or whether a chamber/airlift was available just in case, and it would also make me wonder if later dives might be delayed or aborted in case something went wrong.

But in the end, unless I see something ridiculously out of whack, I'd probably not speak up if it looked like they were fairly experienced. I'd probably say something if the divers looked new and were unsure of their plans, but it's really not my tendency to butt in.