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Have you considered getting a lot more experience before moving to doubles? With <50 dives you are barely starting your diving career and honestly have very little experience. Too Far Too Fast is very prevalent these days.
Why do some experienced divers constantly reply to threads in this manner? Maybe this particular diver progresses faster than you did, and wishes to learn about the next step before experiencing it. Why not just give some friendly advice without the Superiority complex. For the thread starter; I'm in a similar situation, and have thought about this subject for a long time. I think I'm going to go with LP 95s. They're a reasonable size, and hold a lot of gas if you need. Pay no attention to the gezzers around here.
My dive buddy has a set of 130's. His gear (wing, tanks, regs, manifolds, bands, reels, ets.) when full with air is pushing 165 pounds. That is certainly something I don't want to haul around!
Why do some experienced divers constantly reply to threads in this manner? Maybe this particular diver progresses faster than you did, and wishes to learn about the next step before experiencing it. Why not just give some friendly advice without the Superiority complex. For the thread starter; I'm in a similar situation, and have thought about this subject for a long time. I think I'm going to go with LP 95s. They're a reasonable size, and hold a lot of gas if you need. Pay no attention to the gezzers around here.
Why do some experienced divers constantly reply to threads in this manner? Maybe this particular diver progresses faster than you did, and wishes to learn about the next step before experiencing it. Why not just give some friendly advice without the Superiority complex. For the thread starter; I'm in a similar situation, and have thought about this subject for a long time. I think I'm going to go with LP 95s. They're a reasonable size, and hold a lot of gas if you need. Pay no attention to the gezzers around here.
It seems that we have to start somewhere in everything. We learn, get experience and more knowledge, and with all luck the cycle repeats itself while we are living. And hopefully we can get the opinions of those who have been there.
With that said, I don't think that SB, rjack, or anyone else were responding in the manner that you interpreted. And you said it yourself, "experienced divers"; they are helping GTRio out by sharing their thoughts so that he doesn't make the same mistakes that they might have made or have seen other eager divers make. GTRio asked for thoughts on this forum about doubles, that's what he got.
Now our profiles don't mean much if we don't fill them out properly. But for those who do, and update them, we think we can gather some knowledge about them. So, looking at your dives and GTRio's, I'd say that you have been ready and he might need to take rjack and SB's advice.
I would weigh in on this topic, but I have weighed in on doubles before and got flamed. Not because I said something stupid although it was perceived as such and machismo, but how I learned how to handle doubles is different than most who have never been in the military (but it was not worth rebutting the smart guy). If I provided my input to GTRio, I'd say sure get doubles- I learned them at 20 years old and maybe 30 dives before the military training. But we know that the military is not synonymous with common sense and that in the military we work hard and not hard- and looking back, I'd rather learned how the above posters did and when in their diving experience (but it is all mission specific and dependent).
And what's a geezer? I am 35 years old so am I a geezer?
Why do some experienced divers constantly reply to threads in this manner? Maybe this particular diver progresses faster than you did, and wishes to learn about the next step before experiencing it. Why not just give some friendly advice without the Superiority complex. For the thread starter; I'm in a similar situation, and have thought about this subject for a long time. I think I'm going to go with LP 95s. They're a reasonable size, and hold a lot of gas if you need. Pay no attention to the gezzers around here.
I agree with you if they want to be concerned about him not having good skill to advance yet some of them could voice it in a nicer mannor as some do come across a bit harsh at times
I agree with you if they want to be concerned about him not having good skill to advance yet some of them could voice it in a nicer mannor as some do come across a bit harsh at times
I'd rather get "harsh" advice and maybe learn something that might save my life someday, than get a bunch of sunshine blown up my behind, and maybe overlook a bit of too-kindly worded criticism and miss something really important.
Why do some experienced divers constantly reply to threads in this manner? Maybe this particular diver progresses faster than you did, and wishes to learn about the next step before experiencing it. Why not just give some friendly advice without the Superiority complex. For the thread starter; I'm in a similar situation, and have thought about this subject for a long time. I think I'm going to go with LP 95s. They're a reasonable size, and hold a lot of gas if you need
This has nothing at all to do with machismo, rather, it has to do with experience, common sense, and watching the difference in transitioning to doubles between those who have skills and those who don't.
As I said in my other post in this thread, my first doubles dive was around dive 40, and I did fine due to having good trim and buoyancy skills beforehand. If someone has good buoyancy and can hold their trim without thinking about it in a single tank setup, moving to doubles shouldn't be a huge issue.
I have personally mentored a few of my friends in doubles without issues. I believe one had his first doubles dive around dive ~75-80 (?) and the other probably around dive 30, maybe dive 40.
I put both in my set of double Al80s. Both had fantastic basic skills, and neither had issues with the double Al80s. Shortly thereafter we all moved to double 130s, and again had no issues with anything.
On the other hand, I have watched several people (one who I remember quite well) start moving to 'tech' gear relatively soon after learning to dive -- and didn't have the requisite skill-set beforehand. This made their transition to doubles very difficult due to the lack of skills and concepts.
He took a short dive shop class and didn't really learn and know the basic skills that well
He lacked good buoyancy control
He swam at a 45-degree angle
He didn't really know any kicks other than flutter kicking
Next thing I know, within 50 dives he has a set of huge doubles and I see him kneeling on the bottom of the quarry (because he never learned good buoyancy control) trying to figure out S-drills with another equally inexperienced diver in a shiny new set of doubles.
By making these "mean-spirited" posts, I am trying to prevent things like the above from happening, if I can. Diving is supposed to be fun and when you don't have the skillset to deal with a set of doubles on your back, things can go downhill fast.
My point is that if someone possesses great basic skills, moving to doubles relatively soon after learning to dive isn't going to be a huge deal. In fact, it should be a non-issue. IF, however, that person lacks basic skills (which most divers do, as 'arrogant' and 'elitist' as that will sound), moving to doubles will be a problem.
Preferably, most people would look like this before moving to doubles. I know that most don't, and hopefully they can work through it (many times with doubles, they are a bit more stable and I think they can be easier to dive). However, if you can hold position in the water like this, one's transition to doubles will be much easier...
My dive buddy has a set of 130's. His gear (wing, tanks, regs, manifolds, bands, reels, ets.) when full with air is pushing 165 pounds. That is certainly something I don't want to haul around!
As someone using double 130s, that sounds a bit heavy. I would estimate that my gear weighs about 130lbs. I'm assuming ~55lbs per cylinder (full), plus another 20lbs as a very liberal estimate for regs, bands, manifold, and can light. Is this dive buddy of yours carrying anything other than that?
My first set of doubles were lp85s (I can/could get generous overfills). They are still suitable for up to 200ft/20-25min dives for me. From my perspective if I can do the dive on smaller, lighter more agile tanks that's what I use.
I have dove with hp130s (and lp108s at 3900psi). They are fine tanks but I can in all seriousness get 2x200ft dives off one fill. That is just rediculous to carry around day to day. I know, I had spinal surgery 3 yrs ago. 108s/130s are great for cave diving when I am only planning on using a fraction of my gas, so I still use them for that. But I would never dream of diving them as everyday tanks, they are just too damn hard on your body.
As far as tech diving in general, a very wise instructor told me you're ready when you've seen it all at your current level. I would spend time and money travelling and seeing some sites recreationally before waddling around with far too much gear on to do shorter and shorter dives with increasingly expensive fills.
Hence my suggestions to find a new shop that's not pushing the hugest tanks. And to spend more time sniffing the single tank flowers in the Caribbean, South Pacific, Southern California, wherever.
Hi All, sorry I lost this thread but I appreciate everyones input and concern. I have been diving since 97 and haven't had a dive log until last year when I decided I wanted to do the divemaster course, which I am currently doing. I didn't start logging dives until last year and have 85 or so now.
I took an essentials course earlier this year and wanted to start diving doubles to get used to them before I take the Tech 1 course in the fall. I will still be doing NDL diving since all my buddies are on single tanks, I just won't have to change anything over
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